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Paul Manafort: Guilty on 8 Charges, No Verdict on 10 Paul Manafort: Guilty on 8 Charges, No Verdict on 10

08-17-2018 , 03:33 PM
Having a criminal justice system where far less than 20% of the people who go to trial are innocent doesn't mean that everybody who goes to trial will be 80%+ guilty at the end of said trial.

The idea that a juror who only needs 80% confidence to convict doesn't need to listen because all defendants will meet that threshold at the end of every trial, else there wouldn't be a trial, is either incredibly naive or demonstrates a misunderstanding of basic math.
08-17-2018 , 03:34 PM
Also, having a jury with one trump slappy to ignore facts and hang the jury despite paper evidence seems wrong or something haha.
08-17-2018 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigt2k4
you better be damn sure I made us finish our deliberations when I was foreman before the opening ceremonies of the Vancouver Olympics.
I did it in an ethical way though that none of the other jury members would have noticed or even an astute observer would have complained.
Opening ceremonies of olympics in host country that will never happen again in your lifetime vs whatever the **** this dude is doing tonight is totally comparable, including the seriousness of the cases too I bet.
08-17-2018 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep
Why isn't this jury sequestered?
+10000
08-17-2018 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich
Opening ceremonies of olympics in host country that will never happen again in your lifetime vs whatever the **** this dude is doing tonight is totally comparable, including the seriousness of the cases too I bet.
We were sequestered, and it was 1st degree murder
08-17-2018 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus

https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...28690839543808
Great to hear they are taking the future of our democracy seriously.
08-17-2018 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFeelNothin
Great to hear they are taking the future of our democracy seriously.
It's possible 10 want guilty on everything and there's 2 conspiracy theorist drumpkins that deny everything so the whole jury wants a break knowing that they won't reach a decision for a while.
08-17-2018 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFeelNothin
Great to hear they are taking the future of our democracy seriously.
Come on dude, the people on this jury aren't like "this is a grave matter requiring my ultimate sacrifice", they're ordinary shmucks saying to themselves "**** my life, how did I get roped into having to do this for three weeks". And that's how it should be! That's the American justice system at work.
08-17-2018 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigt2k4
It's possible 10 want guilty on everything and there's 2 conspiracy theorist drumpkins that deny everything so the whole jury wants a break knowing that they won't reach a decision for a while.
I misunderstood because I didn't even consider the idea that they might not be sequestered.

I thought they meant they were rushing to finish the whole thing. Which would be really strange to send a note about.
08-17-2018 , 04:16 PM
Media leaks pic of actual note to Ellis

08-17-2018 , 04:44 PM
08-17-2018 , 04:46 PM
Trump routinely crows about the conflicted dems investigating him being so conflicted, but do we hear anything from the left about the conflicted Reagan appointee overseeing and influencing the trial of an old Reagan aide?

Seems a lot more conflicted to me. Like, if these texts from the Strzok (FBI) guy were anything like what we see from this judge, Trump and republicans would have a field day.

Barely seems to register for dems.
08-17-2018 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep
Why isn't this jury sequestered?
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/statu...36045471911938

probably should have been sequestered from the start for multiple reasons but they can fix that in the next trial
08-17-2018 , 04:59 PM
All of the media is on the republican side, for one. The other is that's not how libs operate. We aren't super narcissistic like republicans are. (ie everybody is against/unfair to us)

ofc--many in this thread do not think I'm part of the "we" here as I'm definitely not a socialist.
08-17-2018 , 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/statu...36045471911938

probably should have been sequestered from the start for multiple reasons but they can fix that in the next trial
Judge ever clarify who he's getting threats from? As in if it's pro manafort people or anti manafort people?
08-17-2018 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFeelNothin
I misunderstood because I didn't even consider the idea that they might not be sequestered.

I thought they meant they were rushing to finish the whole thing. Which would be really strange to send a note about.
It shocked me originally too
08-17-2018 , 05:08 PM
Is there any doubt the threats are from Posobiec posing as a violent antifa Manafort hater?
08-17-2018 , 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StimAbuser
Judge ever clarify who he's getting threats from? As in if it's pro manafort people or anti manafort people?
Nope and I don't think he ever should to anyone other than the FBI
08-17-2018 , 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StimAbuser
Judge ever clarify who he's getting threats from? As in if it's pro manafort people or anti manafort people?
The extraordinary bias of the judge in the Manafort trial
During the trial, Ellis intervened regularly, and mainly against one side: the prosecution. The judge's interruptions occurred in the presence of the jury and on matters of substance, not courtroom conduct. He disparaged the prosecution's evidence, misstated its legal theories, even implied that prosecutors had disobeyed his orders when they had not.

...

For now, we have only the extraordinary evidence of Ellis's conduct during the 12-day trial. The judge continually interrupted the prosecution's questioning of witnesses, prompting lead prosecutor Greg Andres to pointedly note: "Your honor stops us and asks us to move on." Ellis pressed the prosecution to rush through testimony about important financial documents. He made critical comments about prosecution evidence and strategy — all in front of the jury.

Ellis also questioned the relevance of Manafort's work as a political consultant for Russian-backed politicians in Ukraine, for which he was paid tens of millions of dollars from 2010 to 2014. But if Manafort didn't disclose some payments because he was not registered in the United States as a foreign agent, it would provide a motive to hide the amounts from the U.S. government — just what the trial was about. Ellis chided prosecutors for eliciting testimony about Manafort's lavish lifestyle, but that kind of testimony is also a classic element in a tax-evasion case. That your cars, boats, condos and clothing suggest you made much more income than you reported would surely be relevant.

After prosecutor Uzo Asonye questioned a bank employee about Manafort's failed attempt to obtain a $5.5 million construction loan on a Brooklyn brownstone, the judge — unprompted by a defense objection — declared: "You might want to spend time on a loan that was granted." The comment strongly implied to jurors that the prosecution was wasting their time. But an attempt to defraud was part of the conspiracy count in the indictment; false representation to secure a loan, successful or not, is itself a crime.
still, it's probably like 80+% to be right-wingers totally misreading the situation as usual
08-17-2018 , 06:13 PM
Judge Ellis is an old scum bag.
08-17-2018 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
That’s my point. No information presented at trial can ever take you to below 80%. f he has an airtight alibi or there is physical evidence he didn’t do it it wouldn’t have gone to trial to begin with. At the end of the trial the DA still thinks the guy is guilty and the judge hasn’t thrown out the case.
You are assuming the defense attorney has shared all exculpatory material they have with the prosecutor as opposed to waiting to trial for the strategic “suprise” value. While defense attorneys often will share some exculpatory evidence in an effort to get a better deal, they will very rarely show all of their cards.
08-17-2018 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep
Why isn't this jury sequestered?
Jury Sequestration doesn’t really happen anymore. It’s expensive.
08-17-2018 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
still, it's probably like 80+% to be right-wingers totally misreading the situation as usual
Or Russians... Can't rule them out. Is anything far-fetched anymore?
08-17-2018 , 08:27 PM
So why is CNN sueing for the names and addresses of Jurors?
08-17-2018 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Right. Putting a percentage on it gets into lol Sklansky territory.
The theoretical technique that turns your opinion into a percentage is to answer the hypothetical question "if you were somehow faced with the EXACT same evidence given at trial (along with the exact same information about the world in general) a million times what percentage of these cases would the defendant be guilty?

There is no correct answer to what the right percentage is but there is an exact answer as to what your personal answer to that question is.

      
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