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Old 05-31-2012, 05:42 PM   #201
wil318466
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
I think wil is my favorite poster ITT because he seems to be completely serious. He has a neat combination of ignorance about the world around him and 4th grade social-studies understanding of the USA.



I love this gem too. 2008 being the first time a non white male was elected as President is certainly showing the rest of the world how its done...
Oh I'm completely serious. Who else would you rely on in the world to "get it done"? Finland?

Do you not think there is a reason that a country with only 5% of the world's population dominates in almost everything worthwhile, or do you think this is some sort of aberration?
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:42 PM   #202
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Btw, you don't even need to be from America to be a Real American. Suck it, Earth!
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:45 PM   #203
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

That Suck it, Earth! comment does not apply to non-American Real Americans obv.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:46 PM   #204
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
The root of all human superstition is that men when see something when it hits, but not when it misses.
- Francis Bacon
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:48 PM   #205
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Wil, there is a zero percent chance I'm going to have a debate with a guy that thinks electing their first non white male in 2008 is an example of global leadership.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:49 PM   #206
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
Wil, there is a zero percent chance I'm going to have a debate with a guy that thinks electing their first non white male in 2008 is an example of global leadership.
Ok.. bye?
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:49 PM   #207
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Nope, I'll still drop by to make fun of your posts.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:51 PM   #208
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Well played, sir.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:35 PM   #209
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by STA654 View Post
lololol

If I link my post ITT that explains why living in the USA is better than Canada (which you claim doesn't exist), do you promise to stop posting here such that nobody must read your idiotic thoughts on this forum again?
Whoa man, there's really no need to be angry and indignant that I hadn't seen your post. There are a lot of posters and a lot of posts on this forum, after all!

I went back and found it; here's what you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654 View Post
I was born in Canada, I think the United States is a better place to live generally; much better climate, greater job opportunity for those with technical skills, lower prices, less taxation and govt heavy-handedness. Europe is probably even worse with regards to prices, taxation, and govt interference, dunno about the job opportunity.

Thankfully, I'm an American citizen by jus sanguinis.
Climate - sure
Job opportunites for those with technical skills - ok, BUT current unemployment rate in Canada 7.3%; in the US it is 8.1%. (References: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...20511a-eng.htm and http://www.bls.gov/)
Lower prices - ok
Lower taxes - ok
Govt heavy-handedness - in what way? Possibly economically but in Canada they arguably have a lot more civil liberties still intact

So yes, this post of yours definitely has some substance but you have still only compared the US to Canada (the comparison to Europe was very superficial). The thread is about whether it is the best in the world.

So let's combine your list with mine. We now have a working list (not ordered in terms of priority) from which to evaluate whether the U.S. is the bestest country in the world!

From your list, I have left out prices (because unless you can track down figures that take earnings into account this is not as useful as it sounds) and tax rates (isn't income per capita more important?). We already have govt heavy-handedness.


My question to you and to everyone is:
On which of these does the U.S. rank number one in the world?
  • (Un)Employment rate
  • Employment opportunities for those with technical skills
  • Climate
  • Scope/potential for upward social mobility
  • Healthcare
  • Income per capita
  • Rank on the U.N. Human Development Index
  • Freedom / civil liberties
  • Functionality of democracy
  • Literacy / education rates
  • Quality of life
  • General compassion of the society (regard for fellow humans, desire to help those less fortunate etc)
  • Incarceration rates

Unfortunately, I can't think of a single one.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:38 PM   #210
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by grizy View Post
Social mobility has actually gone up for the middle 60% of Americans. In other words, the middle class has more opportunities than ever to rise.
umm...no.

b
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:50 PM   #211
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by metaname2 View Post
Social scientists have shown that happiness and contentment have less to do with your absolute level of wealth then with your wealth relative to others in your immediate environment. Thus, the high level of income disparity in the US, oft criticized, actually creates the potential for more happiness. An income disparity more common in the 3rd world combined with a median level of wealth like that of the developed nations is arguably ideal, and is one of the characteristics of the US that makes it so great. The best of both worlds so to speak.
Do you think the less fortunate share your utopian vision? Serious question.

Would be interested to know which studies you are citing. It is definitely true that that people compare themselves to others but you are way overstepping the mark and making a colossal leap in logic in arguing for inequality.

It has been shown pretty convincingly that income inequality is linked to a wide range of variables among society including crime, illiteracy, violence, (lower) mental health, (lower) life expectancy etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaname2 View Post
In that sense, maybe many of the strategies that the wealthy and upper-Middle class use to insulate themselves from the poor (exurban developments, gated communities etc.) are in fact socially beneficial.
Wow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy View Post
Social mobility has actually gone up for the middle 60% of Americans. In other words, the middle class has more opportunities than ever to rise.
Income for the middle class has been stagnant for decades.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:50 PM   #212
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2/325Falcon View Post
Btw, you don't even need to be from America to be a Real American. Suck it, Earth!
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:55 PM   #213
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIMO View Post
My question to you and to everyone is:
On which of these does the U.S. rank number one in the world?
  • (Un)Employment rate
  • Employment opportunities for those with technical skills
  • Climate
  • Scope/potential for upward social mobility
  • Healthcare
  • Income per capita
  • Rank on the U.N. Human Development Index
  • Freedom / civil liberties
  • Functionality of democracy
  • Literacy / education rates
  • Quality of life
  • General compassion of the society (regard for fellow humans, desire to help those less fortunate etc)
  • Incarceration rates

Unfortunately, I can't think of a single one.
The problem is that people don't understand that it doesn't matter.

America is a world-wide draw. People want to come here for higher education, business opportunities, etc. There are a lot of opportunities that just aren't available in other countries.

And, once again, something like quality of life would change dramatically depending on what demographic you fall into.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:43 PM   #214
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
Lolz... you missed the point completely.
No...I got the "point"...it's just that it's as good at the other "points" you've made all throughout the thread.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 07:45 PM   #215
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIMO View Post
My question to you and to everyone is:
On which of these does the U.S. rank number one in the world?
  • (Un)Employment rate
  • Employment opportunities for those with technical skills
  • Climate
  • Scope/potential for upward social mobility
  • Healthcare
  • Income per capita
  • Rank on the U.N. Human Development Index
  • Freedom / civil liberties
  • Functionality of democracy
  • Literacy / education rates
  • Quality of life
  • General compassion of the society (regard for fellow humans, desire to help those less fortunate etc)
  • Incarceration rates

Unfortunately, I can't think of a single one.
Uhhh....that one.
 
Old 05-31-2012, 09:05 PM   #216
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy View Post
Social mobility has actually gone up for the middle 60% of Americans. In other words, the middle class has more opportunities than ever to rise.

The problem is the bottom 20% has become more entrenched than any time in recent memory, leading to a poorer picture overall of American social mobility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIMO View Post

Income for the middle class has been stagnant for decades.
B does not contradict A. People who grew up "middle class" have plenty ofopportunities to study math, computer science, medicine, law, engineering, etc. and make darn good money.

In other words, the transition rate from middle to upper class in the Markov chain is higher now than it used to be
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:04 PM   #217
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg View Post
per class in the Markov chain is higher now than it used to be
Social mobility between the classes has not increased.

b
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:53 PM   #218
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
The problem is that people don't understand that it doesn't matter.
I am truly mystified how you can so easily dismiss these.

Unemployment rate doesn't matter? Maybe you should tell that to all the people struggling to find work to feed their family. Are they just desperate for atttention and nothing else?

Healthcare doesn't matter? I'd imagine that the people in the U.S. who had a serious accident and who have the added immense stress and pressure to come up with the money to pair their crippling bills thanks to a healthcare system that is on average twice as expensive (and has worse health outcomes) as that of other developed countries - they might disagree with you.

Freedom / civil liberties don't matter? Really? PATRIOT act, NDAA, torture... no? Blank stare? You would be happy living under a dictator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
America is a world-wide draw. People want to come here for higher education, business opportunities, etc. There are a lot of opportunities that just aren't available in other countries.
No-one is saying that there aren't great opportunities available in America. But that is the case for many other countries too (e.g. lots of highly-paid positions in Hong Kong, Singapore etc). What about all the countries with lower unemployment rates and higher per capita GDP? And many other countries (e.g. in Europe) offer their residents quality university education that is far more affordable than in the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
And, once again, something like quality of life would change dramatically depending on what demographic you fall into.
What are you saying here exactly, that quality of life measures have no validity across countries? There are many smart people especially university professors of psychology who are very interested in studying cultural differences and there has been a lot of interesting research. Hofstede's cultural dimensions is the obvious example here.


It's almost as if your thinking goes as follows:

"Yes, sure many of the above points in the list are important. In fact, I would use several when evaluating other countries. However, they don't confirm what I really want to believe. Accordingly, they can be dismissed."

More or less?

Last edited by PokerIMO; 05-31-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:57 PM   #219
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
On which of these does the U.S. rank number one in the world?

Employment opportunities for those with technical skills
Quote:
Originally Posted by dessin d'enfant View Post
Uhhh....that one.
Thanks! Finally an answer! Yes, this one is arguably true. But what about Hong Kong, Singapore etc too?

Pity about the rest on the list though, right?
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:12 PM   #220
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Also, all that nonsense about Obama's victory "showing the world how its done" according to some posters....

You might like to read about the 2005 elections in Bolivia. The indigenous people elected one of their own, a poor peasant (Evo Morales), somone who actually represented the majority will of the people.

Contrast this with Obama, who set a record for amount of money received from the finance sector (hedge fund, private equity donors etc). Hope and Change™ IMO.

Also read about what happened in Haiti in 1990.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:27 PM   #221
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Those bitches don't even have a Peace Prize USA #1.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:26 AM   #222
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIMO View Post
What are you saying here exactly, that quality of life measures have no validity across countries? There are many smart people especially university professors of psychology who are very interested in studying cultural differences and there has been a lot of interesting research. Hofstede's cultural dimensions is the obvious example here.


It's almost as if your thinking goes as follows:

"Yes, sure many of the above points in the list are important. In fact, I would use several when evaluating other countries. However, they don't confirm what I really want to believe. Accordingly, they can be dismissed."

More or less?
Then explain why the most ambitious, successful people on the planet want to come here?

I have no desire to move to China, Britain, Norway or Canada. Pick any place on the planet, and I'd want to be in America over it. This isn't something that is up for debate, it's a slam dunk.

Edit : The US isn't simply an important country. It's isn't a superpower, or a hyperpower. It's easily, and I mean by far, the most powerful country in the history of human civilization. Think about that for a second - of all the empires in the history of the world, America surpasses all of them, and easily.

Last edited by wil318466; 06-01-2012 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:57 AM   #223
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

And America has the best healthcare, at least for those that can afford it. That's why the King of (middle East country) and the President of (American puppet state) are regular patients at my hospital, along with several other mega-wealthy and heads of state.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:40 AM   #224
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Also.. one thing that I think we should touch on is the American attitude in terms of competitiveness. It seems that we have more a competitive nature than others. I'm unsure of this because I haven't lived anywhere else, but in terms of sports and success in other areas it just seems we are overachievers.

There's plenty of this in the poker world, but it seems prevalent in many areas. Any input from people overseas?
If we look at Olympic medals won per capita, USA isn't even in the top 40 countries in the world.

http://users.skynet.be/hermandw/olymp/reloly.html

And USA is nowhere near the top in sports like football, cricket, F1 .... which are all big sports in the world.


Also there was a studie made who are the happiest countries in the world (can't find it anywhere) and USA and Australia came on top. The main factor why they are the happiest was , that none of these countries had a war on their land for a very very long time.

Last edited by Andz; 06-01-2012 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:45 AM   #225
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Oh I'm completely serious. Who else would you rely on in the world to "get it done"? Finland?

Do you not think there is a reason that a country with only 5% of the world's population dominates in almost everything worthwhile, or do you think this is some sort of aberration?
When was the last time America has actually got it done? In the last 50 or so years every thing that America touched out of their land became a major failure sooner or later.
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