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Old 05-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #76
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by samsonh View Post
If you're willing to work hard the US is the best place to be. If not I am sure other countries are probably better for you.
US is very low on the list of (upward)social mobility among the industrialized countries.

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Old 05-28-2012, 11:13 AM   #77
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
According to the site, they don't deliver OTP (won't even go to N Druid, bastards), and Ruth's Chris is not on the list. Are you using some kind of special cop privilege?
DBJ works for the health dept?

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Old 05-28-2012, 11:15 AM   #78
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by einbert View Post
A lot of good points have been brought up, but how are we ignoring the 9000 pound gorilla in the room?

http://www.alternet.org/rights/47815/


http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/12/1201.html




But, yeah, hurray for open carry.

One good thing going for us--we have the freedom to act in political dissent. Unfortunately, that right is being attacked as well.

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_...ned_at_border/


Look, the United States has some great things going for it. But we really need to reexamine where we are going as a country. Both parties get an F grade on these extremely important issues.
NP

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Old 05-28-2012, 11:21 AM   #79
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by PokerIMO View Post
Excellent topic.

Being "exceptional" is one of those qualities that mean a whole lot more if others use it to describe you. In other words, you don't get to loudly and shamelessly trumpet it about yourself and have that become truth - it doesn't work that way.

Whenever I hear someone claiming American exceptionalism (or the exceptionalism of any other country for that matter) I think their chances of being a stone-cold moron are pretty exceptional too.

Being proud of your own country is one thing; claiming an innate superiority over other humans is quite another.

Try to get people to explain how their country is exceptional - it's quite illuminating. What does it mean to be exceptional?

Does it mean that the rules that you insist must apply to others somehow don't apply to you?

Exceptional, how?

The following seems a pretty starting point / framework to determine a country's "exceptional" status:

Freedom? (kind of hard thanks to the long list of erosions to liberty e.g. indefinite military detention courtesy of Mr. Hope and Change)
Best healthcare? Nope.
Highest income per capita? Nope.
Education / literacy rates? Nope.
Quality of life? Nope.
The most compassionate society? What about the world's highest incarceration rates?
Literacy rates? Nope

The idea of America nobly and selflessly fighting for democracy and human rights around the world - past and present - might be sustainable in some parts of the States but the victims of bombings, invasions, overthrow of democracies and support for dictators, torture, murderous sanctions etc throughout the world - think Iraq, Vietnam, Latin America, Africa etc - likely have other opinions on the matter.

As Chomsky points out, the idea of exceptionalism is universal to empires throughout history - the Japanese were bringing an "earthly paradise" to the Chinese during the Rape of Nanking; the French were on a "civilising mission" while committing genocide in Africa etc etc.

I know I am coming across as a little harsh, but the idea of "exceptionalism" is truely dangerous and needs to be kept firmly in check.
another + 1.

Exceptionalism is blinding in many cases.

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Old 05-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #80
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by bernie View Post
US is very low on the list of (upward)social mobility among the industrialized countries.

b
cite plz?

My understanding was that America was historically better, but that advantage has eroded and it has recently become a wash with Western Europe. I've only heard this in narrative form in places like the Economist, although seems like data on the issue wouldn't be completely black and white, either.

Edit: Some wiki-ing seems to back your side up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-e..._United_States

Interesting that the UK is so low.

Last edited by TheNewT50; 05-28-2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: .
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #81
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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cite plz?

My understanding was that America was historically better, but that advantage has eroded and it has recently become a wash with Western Europe. I've only heard this in narrative form in places like the Economist, although seems like data on the issue wouldn't be completely black and white, either.

Edit: Some wiki-ing seems to back your side up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-e..._United_States

Interesting that the UK is so low.
There's a lot written on it.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu.../b1579981.html

Study the above is based on:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...tyAnalysis.pdf

Interesting site with lots o' stuff.

http://www.pewstates.org/projects/ec...project-328061

another interesting study:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

I think this is taken from the above, although they're relating it to the UK, US is still shown:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ocial-mobility

Interesting link with extra links to other studies:

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/...ocial-mobility

Basically, most is based on intergenerational status and the ability to move up or down from initial families status. When you have a huge gap in income inequality, it's tougher to move up than those with a closer gap.

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Old 05-28-2012, 01:16 PM   #82
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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cite plz?

My understanding was that America was historically better, but that advantage has eroded and it has recently become a wash with Western Europe. I've only heard this in narrative form in places like the Economist, although seems like data on the issue wouldn't be completely black and white, either.
Bold. This book has a great comparison deal between Sweden and the US, post WWII:
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/bookstore/infopoli.html

Quote:
Interesting that the UK is so low.
Reagan/Thatcher similar policies? I could be wrong about the connection as I haven't studied UK much, but they seem to coincide around this time.

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Old 05-28-2012, 01:23 PM   #83
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
There's a Wal-Mart in Denver CO that I can walk into, buy a Mossberg shotgun, 100 shotgun shells, a bottle of Jack Daniels, go out in the parking lot, fire out some insurance paid $1k/oz street value Dro, fire up a podcast of anti govt speeches, listen to it loudly while smoking out my truck, go home, drink some JD, and shoot at some squirrels in a residential area. GOD BLESS AMERICA!! AMERICA, **** YEA!!!!
I approve of this post.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:29 PM   #84
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

DBJ = Case Closed Personal Speechwriter?
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:35 PM   #85
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I found this.It shows how American states compare with other countries by GDP or population. It's from 2009

http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...ates_countries
That's total GDP.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:25 PM   #86
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
There's a Wal-Mart in Denver CO that I can walk into, buy a Mossberg shotgun, 100 shotgun shells, a bottle of Jack Daniels, go out in the parking lot, fire out some insurance paid $1k/oz street value Dro, fire up a podcast of anti govt speeches, listen to it loudly while smoking out my truck, go home, drink some JD, and shoot at some squirrels in a residential area. GOD BLESS AMERICA!! AMERICA, **** YEA!!!!
*starts packing bags*
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:35 PM   #87
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

This question can be easily settled. Just visit the link and sort by "Gold".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-tim...es_medal_table
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:39 PM   #88
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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This question can be easily settled. Just visit the link and sort by "Gold".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-tim...es_medal_table
This is the real reason for the EU. Once they consolidate into one country they'll pass us on medals! They must be stopped.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:44 PM   #89
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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This is the real reason for the EU. Once they consolidate into one country they'll pass us on medals! They must be stopped.
I am not worried, we'll just keep them on their toes by adding sports like Snowboarding and Women's Softball.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:23 PM   #90
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

The link above proves that Sweden is a vastly superior sporting nation to the USA and Britain is also slightly superior... And several other nations are superior aswell.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:42 PM   #91
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

I've never been to the USA so I'm not that qualified to discuss this. However having watched a decent amount of USA tv, youtube clips of their news programs, Louis therox documentary on Philadelphia etc. I really believe that the whole "american dream" and "you can do anything in america" is just propaganda from the wealthy to keep people in their place. If anyone complains at working a ****ty job then the retort can just be "but you have to start somewhere", "you can do anything in the USA." etc just so they don't complain about getting paid $3 an hour.

It's the same with the healthcare. The rich don't want to pay more taxation so they have their friends in the media run scare tactics about how bad European health care is and the people believe it without realising that they are just pawns for big business.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:44 PM   #92
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Try watching Rocky IV, n00b.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:29 PM   #93
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by andrew91 View Post
I've never been to the USA so I'm not that qualified to discuss this. However having watched a decent amount of USA tv, youtube clips of their news programs, Louis therox documentary on Philadelphia etc. I really believe that the whole "american dream" and "you can do anything in america" is just propaganda from the wealthy to keep people in their place. If anyone complains at working a ****ty job then the retort can just be "but you have to start somewhere", "you can do anything in the USA." etc just so they don't complain about getting paid $3 an hour.

It's the same with the healthcare. The rich don't want to pay more taxation so they have their friends in the media run scare tactics about how bad European health care is and the people believe it without realising that they are just pawns for big business.

that is funny. at least your prefaced your opinion by stating that your impression of America comes from America TV shows and news clips on youtube (great sources by the way).
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:43 PM   #94
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

I saw Masterpiece Theater once, so I'm pretty sure England is full of 19th century old ladies.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:54 PM   #95
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

he's not that far off
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #96
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I saw Masterpiece Theater once, so I'm pretty sure England is full of 19th century old ladies.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:09 PM   #97
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Don't know. Of all countries with >80M peeps (top 16) I gotta think USA#1 is probably right. Germany & Japan could be but I'm willing to risk it. I don't think you can compare places with less than 10M to places with 300M+ (for no real reason just a hunch). I assume living in Monaco or some **** is the nuts but that hardly counts.
Lol, at not counting small countries. It's probably not fair to compare countries with vastly different natural resources but since that's the reality you have to include it in the comparison.

While "best country" is obviously subjective - I don't imagine there are many ways of measuring "best" that the US is #1 in.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:12 PM   #98
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Thank you for reminding us of another way America is #1. Stand up comedy.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:14 PM   #99
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

America is the greatest, best country God has ever given man on the face of the Earth.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:16 PM   #100
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Thank you for reminding us of another way America is #1. Stand up comedy.
Gallagher, tho.

And Carrot Top.
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