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Old 06-06-2012, 11:21 AM   #301
swinginglory
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by Vael View Post
If countries are people, is the US a mass murderer?
Only if you don't believe in the concept of justifiable homicide.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:31 AM   #302
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by swinginglory View Post
Only if you don't believe in the concept of justifiable homicide.
I don't know of any legal theory which justifies U.S. foreign policy by this analogy. There's certainly not one in international law.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:32 AM   #303
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I think many people are equating "great" to some sort of level of "happy and satisfied citizens".

The US is great. It's great because it fights for things it believes in. Some of these are debatable, but there is no doubt that it does what it *thinks* is right most of the time, many times to it's own detriment. That takes courage, it takes belief, it takes "greatness".

It's funny you should mention Nazi Germany and America, since that situation is what catapulted America into it's status. America could have been a country that just sat back and stayed neutral. It didn't, and the world changed - for the better.

America is great because it's a leader, and you can't be great without being a leader.
Sigh...

People actually believe this.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:41 AM   #304
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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The answer to OP's query was answered 40 years ago, as today is the 68th anniversary of the D-Day invasion. Just remember, all the freedoms you enjoy today are a direct result of the courage of the American GI and their allies:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...hoc_96877.html
what happened on the 28th anniversary of the invasion that answered the question?
 
Old 06-06-2012, 11:57 AM   #305
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Outside the states there are two types of people: those who yearn to be an American openly, and those who openly detest America but would snap become an American if given the opportunity.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:04 PM   #306
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I don't know of any legal theory which justifies U.S. foreign policy by this analogy. There's certainly not one in international law.
Which foreign policy are you referring to:

The liberation of Europe and the 67 year commitment to its defense and reconstruction?

The stopping of genocide in the Balkans?

The liberation and 60 year defense of South Korea?

The nurturing of democracy in Japan after vanquishing its murderous monarchy?

The liberation of >50,000,000 from tyranny in Iraq and Afghanistan and giving their peoples a chance at democracy? (I'm assuming you think the systems installed in those countries are preferred to the reigns of Saddam and the Taliban?)

Even the misguided and half assed attempt at defending liberty in SE Asia?

I'm guessing the world is a far better place due to American foreign policy over the last century........

Imagine the counter factual history with America embracing the isolationist feelings of Charles Lindbergh in the 1930's and sitting behind our 2 oceans and watching the world go by. Not a very pretty thought for out European and Asian friends, ehhhh?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:04 PM   #307
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

I hope both of the above posters are joking.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:09 PM   #308
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I thought we had been through that point several times re: having the most money! To continue with the analogy the (U.S.) person would not be the richest. It would be like arguing that China is a richer country than Monaco – you need to check the GDP per capita figures….

Yes, the person would have the most influence economically, politically, militarily, and culturally. Wil, you made some good points in your post, and you were one of the very few in this thread to clearly articulate what you thought made a country “great”. But I, and many others here, find this definition….unsatisfying?

Having the exact type of influence you describe could be said of Nazi Germany. But surely you would not use the term “great” here, would you?

Sure, I accept that the example may in some ways be a little extreme, but I think it captures what I am getting at here. As a side note, the two governments (Nazi and U.S.) are responsible for the death and misery of millions of people around the world, but that’s a different story….

Kim Karadashian seems to also have this kind of “greatness” you describe. But to consider her as a “great” individual? She has a lot of influence (at least over her fan base), a lot of money, and she has shared her “culture” of greed and selfishness with many. However, she is not a particularly well-respected individual and, just like the U.S., is even hated by sizable numbers of people around the world. When I think of greatness, Mother Theresa, Leonardo da Vinci, Abraham Lincoln, Isaac Newton, etc all come to mind. Donald Trump also seems to fit your standard of greatness.

Also, I am still struggling to understand how being part of a country with such a powerful military and such a strong (but declining) influence is so important to many individuals ITT, on a personal level? How are you benefiting personally from this? In the case of the U.S., this kind of state power is largely independent of the quality of life its citizens enjoy… or don’t enjoy, as the case seems to be.

As a final note, a country that whose inhabitants, relative to the rest of the word, are not the most likely to be employed, do not have the greatest potential for upward social mobility, do not enjoy good healthcare, do not have the highest income per capita, do not rank the highest on the U.N. Human Development Index, nor are they freest, the most compassionate, the most educated, or enjoy the greatest quality of life, yet is still considered by many as the “greatest” paints a pretty bleak picture of the world we live in.

In conclusion, yes, the U.S.A. is definitely the “greatest” by some definitions of the word. But not everyone seems to share the same idea of “great”, and that’s just fine too. This has been a very interesting thread.
Nathan's hotdogs.
Your arguement is invalid.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:16 PM   #309
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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what happened on the 28th anniversary of the invasion that answered the question?
I don't know what you are referring to in June 1972. Nixon bombing North Vietnam? Watergate burglaries?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:28 PM   #310
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I hope both of the above posters are joking.
Most certainly not.... plz respond.

If America had just vanished at the turn of the century, how would the world be a better place which your argument certainly implies?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:44 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
Outside the states there are two types of people: those who yearn to be an American openly, and those who openly detest America but would snap become an American if given the opportunity.
As long as they're not poker players amirite?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:45 PM   #312
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

USA is a far better place due to American foregin policy not the world. USA does not mean the whole world.
The liberation of >50,000,000 from tyranny in Iraq and Afghanistan and giving their peoples a chance at democracy?
You did not liberated Iraqis and Afghanistanis. Nothing has changed on better there , infact a lot of things are worse there now.

The stopping of genocide in the Balkans?
Lol at this. I am from Balkan and I can garantuee you that USA had nothing to do with stoping a genocide.

The liberation of Europe and the 67 year commitment to its defense and reconstruction?

You helped libereting the Europe as much as UK or Russia have. We don't need your defense and lol at reconstructing it.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #313
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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The liberation of >50,000,000 from tyranny in Iraq and Afghanistan and giving their peoples a chance at democracy?
You did not liberated Iraqis and Afghanistanis. Nothing has changed on better there , infact a lot of things are worse there now.
Nothing has changed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Saddam and Taliban replaced with popularly democratically elected governments, but nothing has changed? Whatever you say.


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The stopping of genocide in the Balkans?
Lol at this. I am from Balkan and I can garantuee you that USA had nothing to do with stoping a genocide.


Yes the 1995 US/NATO air campaign had nothing to do with the Bosnian Serbs and Milošević's thugs moving to the peace table in November 1995 in the Dayton Accords. Nothing to see here!
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The liberation of Europe and the 67 year commitment to its defense and reconstruction?

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You helped libereting the Europe as much as UK or Russia have. We don't need your defense and lol at reconstructing it.
You think Russia and England would have lasted without the US Lend-Lease and Murmansk runs of material? Forget about the man power and US Navy.

You say you don't need our defense, but I'm pretty sure your parents liked it pretty well in the 40's and 50's. And I don't see too much push to get them out of Europe now, either.

And to lol about reconstruction.... the Marshall Plan sez hai.

Your last name wouldn't be Milošević, by any chance, would it?
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #314
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by swinginglory View Post
The answer to OP's query was answered 40 years ago, as today is the 68th anniversary of the D-Day invasion. Just remember, all the freedoms you enjoy today are a direct result of the courage of the American GI and their allies:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...hoc_96877.html
The Russians made a larger sarcrafice and played a larger role in defeating hitler.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:55 PM   #315
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
Outside the states there are two types of people: those who yearn to be an American openly, and those who openly detest America but would snap become an American if given the opportunity.
Hahahohwow.jpg
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:07 PM   #316
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Lol brainwashing at its finest.
Lying , deciving , making things up , backstabbing,stealing in the name of Freedom and Democracy is doing the right thing and being the leader and the greatest?
USA is the most powerfull nation in the world , but it's not even close to being the greatest. Period.
Who's brainwashed? If anything I'm overly critical of the US government and its policies. I think things can be better and I'm pretty outspoken about it. That doesn't mean I hate it, because I don't.

You can have your opinion, if you think Finland or whatever country you choose is "great", please, name it and defend it. I think that'll be fun, since I'm one of the few people here who actually defends the US in this thread. I think there is opportunity here if you're willing to go and get it, if you think that's laughable, fine, but I bet one of us is doing it wrong, and it's not me.


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Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
Please list some of these examples where the US did the "right" thing even to its own detriment.
I dunno, World War II?
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #317
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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The Russians made a larger sarcrafice and played a larger role in defeating hitler.
There is no question more Russians died, just as there is no question Russia never survives without the massive infusion of materials from 1940-45 from America and Germany having to divide its army east and west to deter the opening of the western front.

Germany had virtually nothing to fear of an invasion solely from England across the channel and could have stacked all those corps east.

And by the way..... let's assume Russia would have prevailed over Germany eventually (not likely, but I'll humor you). Do you think living in Germany, France, Belgium or England would be better today under Stalinist Rule, or the hegemony provided by Eisenhower, America et al??????
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #318
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Andz confirmed furious that USA #1.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:25 PM   #319
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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There is no question more Russians died, just as there is no question Russia never survives without the massive infusion of materials from 1940-45 from America and Germany having to divide its army east and west to deter the opening of the western front.

Germany had virtually nothing to fear of an invasion solely from England across the channel and could have stacked all those corps east.

And by the way..... let's assume Russia would have prevailed over Germany eventually (not likely, but I'll humor you). Do you think living in Germany, France, Belgium or England would be better today under Stalinist Rule, or the hegemony provided by Eisenhower, America et al??????
I don't think they would have been under Stalin's rule.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:34 PM   #320
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I don't think they would have been under Stalin's rule.
Of course you don't!

You believe Stalin would have stopped at Berlin and then would have retreated to pre 1940 borders after vanquishing Hitler.

You never ever believed Stalinism/ Lenninism/Communism was an insidious system antithetical to individual liberty, right? Those boys were harmless and just misunderstood.

Since I'm in a curious mood, say the USA firmly stated it was staying out of all internecine European and Asian conflicts, what, in your opinion would have happened once the Red Army took care of Hitler (assuming they would without assistance)? Plz....I gotta hear this one!
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:34 PM   #321
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I dunno, World War II?
The US fought in WWII for its own benefit. Fighting in the war was clearly to the benefit of the US (compared to the other possible alternatives). I mean you might have an argument if the US had joined WWII earlier without having to be in danger or directly attacked.

Like... I don't know... Canada?
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #322
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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The US fought in WWII for its own benefit. Fighting in the war was clearly to the benefit of the US (compared to the other possible alternatives). I mean you might have an argument if the US had joined WWII earlier without having to be in danger or directly attacked.

Like... I don't know... Canada?
Jesus Christ, I do apologize. I've been wrong all this time.

Canada #1!
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:40 PM   #323
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Sweet. And who said Americans were stupid and ignorant?
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #324
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Hey I get it. People are butthurt over the US. I think part of it truly is Hatin'. The US is like the Floyd Mayweather of countries.

I think it'd be fun if everyone listed where they live and their annual household income with their opinions of the US and it'd put things in much different light.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #325
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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I think it'd be fun if everyone listed where they live and their annual household income with their opinions of the US and it'd put things in much different light.
Somalia. $3,000,000 a month. U.S.A sucks, Somalia #1!
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