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Old 06-04-2012, 12:46 AM   #276
PokerIMO
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by metaname2 View Post
The primary problem with this thread is people are conflating "greatest" with "best place to live" or "most pleasant" or whatever. Incorrect.
And others are conflating "greatest" with "most military might".

Would you say that the greatest human being in the world is the guy who is physically the strongest? Bench press ftw?

A guy who spends all his time at the gym and all his money on protein powder so there is nothing left to look after his family?

Last edited by PokerIMO; 06-04-2012 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:03 AM   #277
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Lol bench press and protein powder. SS & GOMAD USA #1.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:04 AM   #278
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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And others are conflating "greatest" with "most military might".

Would you say that the greatest human being in the world is the guy who is physically the strongest? Bench press ftw?

A guy who spends all his time at the gym and all his money on protein powder so there is nothing left to look after his family?
This isn't a valid comparison. If you change the analogy to the person who can bench the most, is the fastest, has the most money, has the most influence, and has the culture that is emulated the most, then maybe it's somewhat of a comparison.

If you look at the world right now and ask yourself honestly to rank the top 5 countries in the world, the US would be without a doubt #1.

Europe and China and Japan can chirp all they want, but until they are #1 politically (US), #1 economically (US), #1 military (US), and #1 Culturally (US), it's a joke.

Granted, 100 years ago we could replace US with Britain, but I don't see the US ceding anything.

The pro-europeans can do and say what they want, but right now..

ship it.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:12 AM   #279
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Wil just won the thread. Mods: Lock it up.
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:29 AM   #280
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Ship it was a little much. Sorry.

Only kidding. USA USA
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:17 AM   #281
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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And others are conflating "greatest" with "most military might".
In my initial post, I was using "greatest" in the conventional sense, roughly synonymous with "best," "consummate," or "most US-like." However, as jjshabado already pointed out, in the face of US hegemony relying on commonly understood definitions for english is essentially ethnocentric. If you bothered to read the rest of my post, you would see that I admitted the error of my ways and have come to accept Paraguay as the best nation on Earth.

Quote:
Would you say that the greatest human being in the world is the guy who is physically the strongest? Bench press ftw?

A guy who spends all his time at the gym and all his money on protein powder so there is nothing left to look after his family?
I will have to quibble with your analogy here, however. First, you should note that the US is the world's breadbasket, simultaneously the world's biggest importer and exporter of foodstuffs, so you can rest assured that your metaphorical weightlifter will have access to the full range of dietary supplements, with powders in a variety of flavors including grape, banana and mint choco chip. Also, LOL at the bench press being representative of ultimate strength. If you spent any time in the health forums here, you would know that the bench is little more then an accessory exercise. The strongest guy would focus on the full body compound lifts, so it would be more accurate to metaphorize the US as a squatter.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #282
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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This isn't a valid comparison. If you change the analogy to the person who can bench the most, is the fastest, has the most money, has the most influence, and has the culture that is emulated the most, then maybe it's somewhat of a comparison.

If you look at the world right now and ask yourself honestly to rank the top 5 countries in the world, the US would be without a doubt #1.

Europe and China and Japan can chirp all they want, but until they are #1 politically (US), #1 economically (US), #1 military (US), and #1 Culturally (US), it's a joke.

Granted, 100 years ago we could replace US with Britain, but I don't see the US ceding anything.

The pro-europeans can do and say what they want, but right now..

ship it.
If I put a turd in a bucket of milk the turd will effect the milk more than the milk effects the turd, does this make the turd better than the milk?
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:53 AM   #283
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

so the bucket of milk = europe (lol white symbolism AMIRITE?)
turd = greece

sorry euros
 
Old 06-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #284
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so the bucket of milk = europe (lol white symbolism AMIRITE?)
turd = greece

sorry euros
Lol

If germany is the cream then I approve this message.

I even give you the usa being the double chocolate fudge milkshake.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:29 PM   #285
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

DeucesAx confirmed Aryan
 
Old 06-04-2012, 01:01 PM   #286
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Is that a priori a bad thing?
Also, to stay in the analogy you implied I made, the us is a double chocolote fudge sunday topped with a cherry and some crushed peanuts.

I was simply going for something awesome in a folkloric (for lack of a better words) kind of way as opposed to something more subtle.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:21 PM   #287
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I'm going to Cold Stone's now.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:53 AM   #288
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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so the bucket of milk = europe (lol white symbolism AMIRITE?)
turd = greece

sorry euros
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Originally Posted by DeucesAx View Post
Lol

If germany is the cream then I approve this message.

I even give you the usa being the double chocolate fudge milkshake.
Germany is the bucket that could just tip the poo milk out and refill if it wanted.
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:13 AM   #289
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Reformulate this with a poker analogy plz.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:07 AM   #290
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

so nobody thinks military prowess is a negative for a country? I don't really see the positives of it especially when it's used for the lol foreign policy we've had for the last 67 years and has spawned a massive industrial complex.

You could say our cultural influence, while strong, is a negative also, since if we're being honest our "culture" is pretty crappy.

There's something to be said for keeping to yourself and letting your qualities be imported by others on their own merits.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:05 AM   #291
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Culture is fine and it's fine to promote it whatever that means.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:10 AM   #292
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Culture is fine and it's fine to promote it whatever that means.
Is this a response to my post? I didn't say anything about "promoting" culture. How can it be "fine" if you don't even know what it means?
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #293
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
This isn't a valid comparison. If you change the analogy to the person who can bench the most, is the fastest, has the most money, has the most influence, and has the culture that is emulated the most, then maybe it's somewhat of a comparison.

If you look at the world right now and ask yourself honestly to rank the top 5 countries in the world, the US would be without a doubt #1.

Europe and China and Japan can chirp all they want, but until they are #1 politically (US), #1 economically (US), #1 military (US), and #1 Culturally (US), it's a joke.

Granted, 100 years ago we could replace US with Britain, but I don't see the US ceding anything.

The pro-europeans can do and say what they want, but right now..

ship it.

I thought we had been through that point several times re: having the most money! To continue with the analogy the (U.S.) person would not be the richest. It would be like arguing that China is a richer country than Monaco – you need to check the GDP per capita figures….

Yes, the person would have the most influence economically, politically, militarily, and culturally. Wil, you made some good points in your post, and you were one of the very few in this thread to clearly articulate what you thought made a country “great”. But I, and many others here, find this definition….unsatisfying?

Having the exact type of influence you describe could be said of Nazi Germany. But surely you would not use the term “great” here, would you?

Sure, I accept that the example may in some ways be a little extreme, but I think it captures what I am getting at here. As a side note, the two governments (Nazi and U.S.) are responsible for the death and misery of millions of people around the world, but that’s a different story….

Kim Karadashian seems to also have this kind of “greatness” you describe. But to consider her as a “great” individual? She has a lot of influence (at least over her fan base), a lot of money, and she has shared her “culture” of greed and selfishness with many. However, she is not a particularly well-respected individual and, just like the U.S., is even hated by sizable numbers of people around the world. When I think of greatness, Mother Theresa, Leonardo da Vinci, Abraham Lincoln, Isaac Newton, etc all come to mind. Donald Trump also seems to fit your standard of greatness.

Also, I am still struggling to understand how being part of a country with such a powerful military and such a strong (but declining) influence is so important to many individuals ITT, on a personal level? How are you benefiting personally from this? In the case of the U.S., this kind of state power is largely independent of the quality of life its citizens enjoy… or don’t enjoy, as the case seems to be.

As a final note, a country that whose inhabitants, relative to the rest of the word, are not the most likely to be employed, do not have the greatest potential for upward social mobility, do not enjoy good healthcare, do not have the highest income per capita, do not rank the highest on the U.N. Human Development Index, nor are they freest, the most compassionate, the most educated, or enjoy the greatest quality of life, yet is still considered by many as the “greatest” paints a pretty bleak picture of the world we live in.

In conclusion, yes, the U.S.A. is definitely the “greatest” by some definitions of the word. But not everyone seems to share the same idea of “great”, and that’s just fine too. This has been a very interesting thread.

Last edited by PokerIMO; 06-05-2012 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #294
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If I ever form a debate team, I want you as my captain.

\thread imho
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:47 AM   #295
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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Originally Posted by PokerIMO View Post
I thought we had been through that point several times re: having the most money! To continue with the analogy the (U.S.) person would not be the richest. It would be like arguing that China is a richer country than Monaco – you need to check the GDP per capita figures….

In conclusion, yes, the U.S.A. is definitely the “greatest” by some definitions of the word. But not everyone seems to share the same idea of “great”, and that’s just fine too. This has been a very interesting thread.
I think many people are equating "great" to some sort of level of "happy and satisfied citizens".

The US is great. It's great because it fights for things it believes in. Some of these are debatable, but there is no doubt that it does what it *thinks* is right most of the time, many times to it's own detriment. That takes courage, it takes belief, it takes "greatness".

It's funny you should mention Nazi Germany and America, since that situation is what catapulted America into it's status. America could have been a country that just sat back and stayed neutral. It didn't, and the world changed - for the better.

America is great because it's a leader, and you can't be great without being a leader.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:01 AM   #296
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

The US is great. It's great because it fights for things it believes in. Some of these are debatable, but there is no doubt that it does what it *thinks* is right most of the time, many times to it's own detriment. That takes courage, it takes belief, it takes "greatness"

Lol brainwashing at its finest.
Lying , deciving , making things up , backstabbing,stealing in the name of Freedom and Democracy is doing the right thing and being the leader and the greatest?
USA is the most powerfull nation in the world , but it's not even close to being the greatest. Period.

Last edited by Andz; 06-06-2012 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:03 AM   #297
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It's great because it fights for things it believes in. Some of these are debatable, but there is no doubt that it does what it *thinks* is right most of the time, many times to it's own detriment. That takes courage, it takes belief, it takes "greatness".
Please list some of these examples where the US did the "right" thing even to its own detriment.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:05 AM   #298
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Somalia is the greatest nation on earth


Disclosure:

Spoiler:
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:18 AM   #299
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

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The US is great. It's great because it fights for things it believes in. Some of these are debatable, but there is no doubt that it does what it *thinks* is right most of the time, many times to it's own detriment. That takes courage, it takes belief, it takes "greatness".
If countries are people, is the US a mass murderer?
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:19 AM   #300
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Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

The answer to OP's query was answered 40 years ago, as today is the 68th anniversary of the D-Day invasion. Just remember, all the freedoms you enjoy today are a direct result of the courage of the American GI and their allies:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...hoc_96877.html
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