Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #1
Riverman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Riverman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 73,137
Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

People who are old seem to feel very strongly that America really is special. That it stands for the right things, that it is in fact exceptional, that it makes the world a much better place and is without question the best place to live on earth. Sort of makes sense, because **** was really ****ed up around WWII and whatever shortcomings we've had are outweighed by saving the world, literally.

The next generation, baby boomers, seems to kind of sometimes think that, but less so. They abhorred Vietnam and are a bit more critical.

My generation, the baby boomers' kids, seem to have little to no nationalism at all, at least among the well-educated. I think this is a good thing, because nationalism sucks and it makes people defend and/or support things that are horrible such as the erosion of civil rights in the aftermath of 9/11. Also it creates an us vs. them mentality even where the supposed foe has much in common with us.

Are we actually getting less nationalistic? Is it because leaders suck even more than they did in the past? Does it even matter since the most any of us are willing to do about it is read Glenn Greenwald and type WAAF on the internet?
Riverman is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 03:27 PM   #2
gusmahler
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
gusmahler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Creepin'
Posts: 29,446
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

America. **** Yeah!
gusmahler is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 03:37 PM   #3
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

This is the greatest nation in the world.

Freedom!


Plus marijuana legalization is on the uptick.

I'm considering a move to CO, which seems to be the greatest state in the US.
DblBarrelJ is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #4
pvn
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

 
Old 05-27-2012, 03:54 PM   #5
seattlelou
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
seattlelou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 6'20" and killing for fun.
Posts: 31,605
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Nationalism is a negative term. I prefer American exceptionalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
seattlelou is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 03:56 PM   #6
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,586
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
This is the greatest nation in the world.

Freedom!


Plus marijuana legalization is on the uptick.

I'm considering a move to CO, which seems to be the greatest state in the US.
NY is 'may' for ownership, not carry.

as you were.
General Tsao is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #7
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

You are incorrect.

In practice, you are right. However, in theory, you "may" be issued a carry permit (you won't be though).

I've bitched about this before, that map is drawn based on what the law says, not what they actually do.

For all practical purposes, CA/NY/HI should be red.
DblBarrelJ is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #8
Happy_Fish
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Happy_Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Here for the WW
Posts: 7,497
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

I think the USA is probably still one of of best countries, if not the best. That does not mean that we are immune to becoming worse, as seems to be the attitude of the older generation. I think that we're much "less better" than the rest of the world than we were 10 years ago.
Happy_Fish is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:09 PM   #9
miajag
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
miajag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Et me, buddy.
Posts: 17,330
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

America is def #1 at getting the haters furious.
miajag is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:10 PM   #10
Riverman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Riverman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 73,137
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

I think most of Europe is better for now, but their fiscal mess is probably going to lead to some really ugly **** in the next decade. Lots of places with economic freedom have basically no social freedom and vice versa.
Riverman is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #11
2/325Falcon
Conehead
 
2/325Falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,904
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Grunch: **** yeah.
2/325Falcon is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #12
JMa
veteran
 
JMa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: I could've been a kosher butcher
Posts: 3,328
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
People who are old seem to feel very strongly that America really is special. That it stands for the right things, that it is in fact exceptional, that it makes the world a much better place and is without question the best place to live on earth. Sort of makes sense, because **** was really ****ed up around WWII and whatever shortcomings we've had are outweighed by saving the world, literally.

The next generation, baby boomers, seems to kind of sometimes think that, but less so. They abhorred Vietnam and are a bit more critical.

My generation, the baby boomers' kids, seem to have little to no nationalism at all, at least among the well-educated. I think this is a good thing, because nationalism sucks and it makes people defend and/or support things that are horrible such as the erosion of civil rights in the aftermath of 9/11. Also it creates an us vs. them mentality even where the supposed foe has much in common with us.

Are we actually getting less nationalistic? Is it because leaders suck even more than they did in the past? Does it even matter since the most any of us are willing to do about it is read Glenn Greenwald and type WAAF on the internet?

Surely America is getting more nationalistic. From what little I know it seems like soldiers returning from Vietnam were getting a very hard time. These days, your troops seem to be more or less demigods. Dixie chicks etc.

Obeying authority/rich ppl has more or less replaced rule of law. If you don't support whatever ******* is in charge, be it a president, banker, police, means you are un-American which seems to be even worse than being a communist. Anybody with a job seems to be untouchable. I don't really know how bad this has been historically (say 1900-) though, perhaps it was even worse. How many % of the population wants Obama to ***** just (ok, it's because he's black) because they think he was born outside of the USA?

American journalism seems like an enormous joke these days. MSM media mostly relays whatever the US gov wants. The whole Iraq thing was crazy and now watching it all over again w/ Iran is insane. Perhaps things have changed for the better now that cable news is here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy_Fish View Post
I think the USA is probably still one of of best countries, if not the best. That does not mean that we are immune to becoming worse, as seems to be the attitude of the older generation. I think that we're much "less better" than the rest of the world than we were 10 years ago.
Let's hear a few reasons for USA #1 please.

One of the reasons seems to be the right to carry a gun. Even if I concede that point, I am more likely to die a violent death in USA than in other wealthy countries (correct me if I'm wrong).

IMO, gun ownership seems to be a red herring. You see ppl cheering their state on while it imposes incredibly crazy things like the War on Drugs, for-profit prisons and good old assassination. But as long as you have guns, you're free!


Quote:
Originally Posted by miajag View Post
America is def #1 at getting the haters furious.
That award goes to brown ppl or maybe, maybe poor ppl.

Last edited by JMa; 05-27-2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: really though, most of my knowledge of how USA used to be comes from First Blood, All the Presidents men, and Michael Moore
JMa is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #13
2/325Falcon
Conehead
 
2/325Falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,904
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

JMa,

Your post is terrible and we need you to gtfo so America can stay #1.
2/325Falcon is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:45 PM   #14
JMa
veteran
 
JMa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: I could've been a kosher butcher
Posts: 3,328
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2/325Falcon View Post
JMa,

Your post is terrible and we need you to gtfo so America can stay #1.
Spoiler:
JMa is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #15
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

There's a Wal-Mart in Denver CO that I can walk into, buy a Mossberg shotgun, 100 shotgun shells, a bottle of Jack Daniels, go out in the parking lot, fire out some insurance paid $1k/oz street value Dro, fire up a podcast of anti govt speeches, listen to it loudly while smoking out my truck, go home, drink some JD, and shoot at some squirrels in a residential area. GOD BLESS AMERICA!! AMERICA, **** YEA!!!!
DblBarrelJ is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #16
Klinzmann
adept
 
Klinzmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: M:hamn
Posts: 785
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

As a euro I can say that USA is a great country, used to be #1 and it probably still is in the top 5 in the world. The American people are getting dumbed down in an alarming rate by mass media and public schools, so you will probably drop down in the list as the american dream get's blurrier and the federal government starts running your lives more.
Klinzmann is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:00 PM   #17
tchaz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tchaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,440
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Their teams pretty much always win the World Series .. so that just about proves it .. amirite?
tchaz is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #18
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Other than an occasional win by some whiny Canadians, we certainly do.
DblBarrelJ is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #19
PLOwed
grinder
 
PLOwed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the P box at live tournies
Posts: 624
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

^^This is the problem. Too much freedom. They r slowly taking these things from us anyway though
PLOwed is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:08 PM   #20
zikzak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zikzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hither, Yon
Posts: 22,236
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
G.B. Shaw
zikzak is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:19 PM   #21
krmont22
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
krmont22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 8,078
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

I don't think our level of Nationalism has really changed much. Many people realize all the terrible things that we do, but they justify it by saying "yeah, but you get to live in America" or something similar. It is almost like an apathetic nationalism in that they trust the government 100%.
krmont22 is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:39 PM   #22
CBorders
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
CBorders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 25% RISK FREE
Posts: 16,509
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

We have guns and Jimmy Johns.

Agree with Klinzmann though.
CBorders is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:46 PM   #23
DePokerGod
old hand
 
DePokerGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The UK Baby !!!
Posts: 1,311
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
G.B. Shaw
I was born in UK and i think, sorry i know the usa is the best.
DePokerGod is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #24
gusmahler
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
gusmahler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Creepin'
Posts: 29,446
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
G.B. Shaw
Difference is, Americans are actually correct in this thinking.
gusmahler is offline  
Old 05-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #25
vixticator
clutch
 
vixticator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Watch the throne
Posts: 117,345
Re: Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries?

Don't know. Of all countries with >80M peeps (top 16) I gotta think USA#1 is probably right. Germany & Japan could be but I'm willing to risk it. I don't think you can compare places with less than 10M to places with 300M+ (for no real reason just a hunch). I assume living in Monaco or some **** is the nuts but that hardly counts.
vixticator is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive