Goodie: PVN is anti taxes because he (correctly) views them as a violation of the NAP (as you don't have any say, you either pay up or you get put in a cage).

You are arguing for the benefits of this aggressive, criminal action, essentially ignoring the means and focussing on the ends. If a coalition of private citizens were to demand you pay them X% of your earnings and if you don't they will come around with guns, take your stuff and possibly lock you away, you would be like "OMGGG MAFIA CALL THE COPZZZZZZZZZZ"; but the state does it and you are all like "THIS IS TOTALLY COOL AND ETHICAL AND THERES NOTHING WRONG AT ALL BECAUSE I NEED THE ROADZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ OBAMA FTWWWWWW".

You are basically saying "OMG you want to get rid of this aggressive, unethical violation of property rights, HOW COULD YOU??? BUT WHAT ABOUT THE (insert government expenditure here)"

Yeah, you NEVER contradict yourself. HAHAHAHAHA.

You're so easy to make a fool of. It's actually not even challenging anymore.

FYP so it's not basically what I"m saying, it's EXACTLY what I'm saying. And until somebody tells me how we are going to pay for roads, police, fire, schools, etc, etc, etc then I'm going to keep saying it.

I mean, can't PVN or anyone come up with SOMETHING?

And to be clear, I'm not opposed to getting rid of taxes but give me some sort of an alternative that makes sense. That's all I'm asking. Do you really think that's too much to ask? PVN does.

Oh so its only the government who are capable of providing roads, police, fire and schools etc?

And if we stopped taking peoples money, against their will, at gunpoint, we would suddenly have no roads, police, fire and schools?

If the services/infrastructure you list are so desirable and needed (and i agree that they are), what exactly is stopping them from being offered by private institutions seeking to profit by filling a vacuum in the marketplace?

A more fundamental question is, how exactly is a centralized institution with unlimited funds (obtained through coercive force) going to determine what is needed and what isn't needed, better than a private institution which utilizes price signals to determine where best to allocate its capital? (and also faces the risk of going out of business if it fails to satisfy the demands of the consumers).

hahahah oh wow dot jpeg

oh man, I've been posting here for EIGHT YEARS and goodie is the first person to OPEN MY EYES with the WHO WILL BUILD THE ROADZZZZZZZZZZZ

truly an intellectual giant.

Goodie:

I don't care how you pay for roads. Just like I don't care how you allocate your funds for entertainment, or food, or shelter. YOU tell you how to pay for roads.

Just give me your ideas. I'm open to it. That's all I asked of PVN and he refused. Or couldn't.

No, I don't think that only government are capable of providing those things. But you're proposing something different. Hit me with it.

Goodie would have been that guy 200 years ago that was saying "we can't free all these slaves until SOMEONE tells me how we're gonna find jobs for them. Abolitionists would be WELL SERVED to EXPLAIN COMPLICATED THINGS TO ME like where these people are gonna live and how we're gonna make sure they can handle freedom and if nobody can explain it to me then I WON'T ALLOW IT."

Dude, if I had THE BEST IDEA I would be pushing that rather than letting people just compete and figure things out on their own.

oh, ok so you're just pretending to be hardheaded.

So, tell me how these things are going to be paid for. Give me a plan. As I said, I'm open to discussing. That's all I asked to begin with.

Seriously goodie, I hate to break this to you but WHO WILL BUILD THE ROADZZZ is like 2005. Even things like TEH MONOPOLIES are like 2008 at best. I already told you we covered all this in like 200 other threads, I really don't feel like going over it all again just because you're too lazy to read and would rather just assume (there you go again) that you're the first smart person to ever visit the politards.

To summarise, Goodie has little faith in humanity, thinks people are too stupid to be free and is CONFIRMED sure that the only way to mantain a civilized society is by having a class of armed overlords who utilize their power by stealing and allocating the resources of the peons.

Peons should be happy and live in peace and harmony, because of the ROADDDDDZZZZ and HILDOGZ IS HOT YO

I'll say it one more time.

I do not have a plan.

that's on purpose. The whole point is that plans are the problem. Again, you're not going to understand this because you're a closed-minded control freak that needs everything micromanaged, but real life is more complicated than sim city.

One thing to consider:

what do you think about evolution?

Do you think people who "believe" in evolution should be able to give you a "plan" of what species will evolve over the next 100,000 years? Are they crazy because they "believe" in future evolutionary developments that don't exist and cannot even be predicted?

Why wouldn't having a plan in that situation make sense? I wouldn't go as far to say "I won't allow it" if there is no plan in place but thinking about how slaves would adapt to not being slaves seems like a pretty good thing to think about. Didn't we owe them that?

OK well go think about how to pay for roads then. It's really not very hard.

PVN dude you're an idiot, didnt you realize that every single thing ever was created by the public sector? Like even the trees and amino acids and stuff dude.. I mean, this whole private sector thing is only a theory, a conspiracy created to delude the masses.

I mean, i can't even imagine how we would have anything at all without our overlords who are there to forcefully take our resources and allocate them as they see fit. PEACE BE UPON THEM

Give me your ideas of an alternative. As I said, I'm open to them.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

.

I understand it's privatization. But tell me how you think that would work. Or Bluffs can do it. That's all I'm asking.

If it's so obvious, why can't you do it?

Firstly, is there something about roads, police, firemen, that make them different* from the services that the private sector currently provide?

Secondly, if i was to break into your house, put a gun to your head, take a portion of your money, and then donate all of it to charity and then i run into you a week later, and tell you im planning to do the same thing again, would you be like "oh dude thats totally cool because your like donating it to charity and stuff and like HILDOGZ IS HOT YO"


*to the extent that these services can only be provided by using guns to steal money from peaceful citzenry?

This.

People want roads, they build roads. Jesus, goodie. I don't know how the ****ing car industry works but WALLA, I have a car.

What about fire, police, schools? I'm not challenging. I'm seriously curious how you and Bluff think it would work. I haven't given privitization a lot of thought to be honest.

What about them?

I'm not sure if you knew this, but there are already private schools. A lot of them provide decent education for less than what public schools spend per student.

There are already private firefighters that fill in gaps where state provided ones fail. And before firefighters were made municipal employees, there were both volunteer fire departments and professional fire departments funded via insurance-type arrangements.

Similarly, before doctors unions got the government to start mucking with healthcare, there was extremely affordable healthcare through voluntary friendly societies that worked basically like group health insuance works today, only it wasn't tied to your employer.

There are all sorts of private solutions to whatever problem you can come up with. The fact that you haven't thought about it isn't really relevant or interesting.

Now, back to people with actual plans, we're still waiting for the details of your tax on not fun income plan.