C'mon....

I was thinking about this thread last night while watching the 4th of July festivities. I feel like a grumpy old man but it struck me how hypocritical so many people are. I rarely get arguments when I go on a rant about how freedom is a crock in this country, our government is the most horribly run entity I can think of and the crime and general stupidity and "me first" attitude of the citizens of this country is at an all time high.

Yet, most people have this illogical "love" and "defense" of this country. Most people talk out of both sides of their mouth. "This is the greatest country in the world!!!!" they say. Then the next day they go back to complaining about just about every aspect of the country they claim to "love" so much.

It's really maddening and I refuse to be a part of it.

USA#1dealwithit

I guess it's a good thing that the US invented free speech, political dissent, telecommunications and leisure time so you are thus able to spend your vacation pondering how bad you have it and badmouthing the greatest country on Earth on the internet. Would love to see you try that in Luxembourg.

Is this a level? I have some thoughts but I'm not sure if you're serious.

Freedom is a crock in this country, and it's thanks to people like you Mr Steal guns from private ownership and sterilize the poor.

You have to see the irony of you complaining about your oppression while out having fun on vacation enjoying the "festivities". Go on all you want about how wonderful life is in Scandinavia or whatever, but those countries don't even recognize the 4th of July and if you lived there you would have been at work.

Actually, not at all. I'm much more pro-freedom than you think. I think most drugs should be legal, prostitution should be legal, I think that employers should be able to hire and fire who ever the hell they want for whatever reason they want, I think gambling should be completely legal in all forms and without taxation. However, I do think that the government should regulate and control some things, one of which is gun ownership and I do think the "given people 20K to make themselves steril (THEIR choice)" is a great idea.

No irony there. I was just watching it on TV and I wasn't enjoying it, my wife put it on. I did enjoy the day off but that has nothing at all to do with love for my country, it has to do with love for my family.

And I'm not entirely educated on what it's like in all other countries but my understanding is that quite a few countries have much more vacation time than we do in America so that's not really a valid argument.

Is this...I don't even know how to call this. Is it just ignorance or there is some point that u made and I can't see?
Why the hell would Scandinavian countries recognize 4th of July ?
You know that on some other days when people form different countries have their holidays u are at work in USA?
And FYI, people in Europe in general work a lot less and have longer vacations then Americans.

To paraphrase: Things you like (gambling, drugs, discrimination, prostitution) should be legal, things you don't like (guns, poor people) should be banned. Am I getting that right? One problem - where are all the prostitutes gonna come from after a few years of sterilizing the poor?

Nope. Completely incorrect. I actually only like 1 out of the 4 things you mentioned. I've never done any drug in my entire life, would never visit a prostitute, and hate discrimination. However, I believe that people should have the right to do most drugs, should be able to prostitute if they would like (not to mention how much safer it would become if it was legal and monitored to some degree) and I think if you own a business, you should be able to choose who you hire and fire for any reason.

And I have no problem with poor people. Where did you get that?

So an employer can fire anyone for any reason, but he can't shoot someone no matter what they do? Only in America.

Ummmm, yeah. Why would that be strange? You do realize the DRASTIC, DRASTIC difference between taking someone's job and potentially taking someone's LIFE, right?

Then explain to me why your job is often referred to as your "livelihood"?

Don't get me wrong, I have never been fired from any job, but I would like to think that if I was fired (and especially for no reason), that I could defend myself.

I get it. That's somewhat valid. I guess my feeling is that the market should take care of itself. I think in most cases employers that are firing people (or even not hiring people) for ridiculous reasons will likely not last. First, because anyone that would do this is likely ignorant or stupid and will likely fail in business. Second, because they will likely be missing out on, or firing, really good people.

I just don't think the government or legal system should have anything to do with hiring or firing people.

I'm mostly posting because I reflexively have to take the other end of anything goodie is arguing, but seriously, there's nothing inherently contradictory there.

The fact that X is "the best" doesn't require X to be perfect. Everyone can improve.

No, that's not how it works.

You can't say "I'm fine with things I like but things I don't like should be illegal" and claim that's a pro-freedom position. That's a "pro-people-who-think-like-goodie" position.

Chucknorristhumbsup.gif

You really do have to disagree with everything I say. You don't even have control over it.

I understand that there is no inherent problem with complaining about your country while still believing it's the best. That's obvious. There are two problems there -

1.) I would say literally 100% of the people that subscribe to this thinking simply do not have the knowledge necessary to make that assesment because they don't have the necessary knowledge of other countries to be educated enough to say that the US is best.

2.) My problem is mostly that the same people that say they "love" the country complain about every aspect of it, which is contradictory.

No, because if you notice, there is only one thing that I'm proposing should be illegal that imposes on freedoms whereas there are four things (that I mentioned) that I propose there should be more freedom around.

So, I'm not a math whiz or anything, but by my in depth calculations using all the math training I've had over my lifetime, 4 is larger than 1. Therefore, I'm making the jump that I'm pro-freedom as a general concept, minus one issue.

Do you disagree?

And why does everyone hate on Goodie's voluntary poor sterilizing program? I'd make it a prerequisite to getting welfare or food stamps (I kid, I kid)

Yes, I disagree. I mean I can say people should be free to eat hamburgers and watch tv and bet their wives and play golf that's FOUR WHOLE THINGS and only ONE thing that should be restricted (just a tiny thing like speech, for example) FOUR IS MORE THAN ONE.

I made an omelet with four good eggs and one bad one, I got sick but I told the doctor FOUR GREATER THAN ONE DUMMY.

So, your saying that my stance on gun control trumps all four of the other issues? So, I have to support freedom in every issue or I don't support freedom at all? That just doesn't make sense. The world doesn't work that way. People that have blanket beliefs for every issue are incredibly simple minded and ignorant people. Each issue is separate and has separate dynamics and arguments. On most issues, I tend to believe in more freedom for people. Therefore, I believe that I'm justified to complain that freedom is a joke in this country and we really aren't "free". And I'm not the cause of that problem.