Nationalism: Do You Actually Think America is Better Than Other Countries? - Page 4 - Politics and Economics

According to the site, they don't deliver OTP (won't even go to N Druid, bastards), and Ruth's Chris is not on the list. Are you using some kind of special cop privilege?

DBJ works for the health dept?

b

05-28-2012 , 11:15 AM

#78

bernie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

A lot of good points have been brought up, but how are we ignoring the 9000 pound gorilla in the room?

http://www.alternet.org/rights/47815/

http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/12/1201.html

But, yeah, hurray for open carry.

One good thing going for us--we have the freedom to act in political dissent. Unfortunately, that right is being attacked as well.

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_...ned_at_border/

Look, the United States has some great things going for it. But we really need to reexamine where we are going as a country. Both parties get an F grade on these extremely important issues.

NP

b

05-28-2012 , 11:21 AM

#79

bernie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerIMO

Excellent topic.

Being "exceptional" is one of those qualities that mean a whole lot more if others use it to describe you. In other words, you don't get to loudly and shamelessly trumpet it about yourself and have that become truth - it doesn't work that way.

Whenever I hear someone claiming American exceptionalism (or the exceptionalism of any other country for that matter) I think their chances of being a stone-cold moron are pretty exceptional too.

Being proud of your own country is one thing; claiming an innate superiority over other humans is quite another.

Try to get people to explain how their country is exceptional - it's quite illuminating. What does it mean to be exceptional?

Does it mean that the rules that you insist must apply to others somehow don't apply to you?

Exceptional, how?

The following seems a pretty starting point / framework to determine a country's "exceptional" status:

Freedom? (kind of hard thanks to the long list of erosions to liberty e.g. indefinite military detention courtesy of Mr. Hope and Change)
Best healthcare? Nope.
Highest income per capita? Nope.
Education / literacy rates? Nope.
Quality of life? Nope.
The most compassionate society? What about the world's highest incarceration rates?
Literacy rates? Nope

The idea of America nobly and selflessly fighting for democracy and human rights around the world - past and present - might be sustainable in some parts of the States but the victims of bombings, invasions, overthrow of democracies and support for dictators, torture, murderous sanctions etc throughout the world - think Iraq, Vietnam, Latin America, Africa etc - likely have other opinions on the matter.

As Chomsky points out, the idea of exceptionalism is universal to empires throughout history - the Japanese were bringing an "earthly paradise" to the Chinese during the Rape of Nanking; the French were on a "civilising mission" while committing genocide in Africa etc etc.

I know I am coming across as a little harsh, but the idea of "exceptionalism" is truely dangerous and needs to be kept firmly in check.

another + 1.

Exceptionalism is blinding in many cases.

b

05-28-2012 , 11:51 AM

#80

TheNewT50

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernie

US is very low on the list of (upward)social mobility among the industrialized countries.

b

cite plz?

My understanding was that America was historically better, but that advantage has eroded and it has recently become a wash with Western Europe. I've only heard this in narrative form in places like the Economist, although seems like data on the issue wouldn't be completely black and white, either.

Edit: Some wiki-ing seems to back your side up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-e..._United_States

Interesting that the UK is so low.

Last edited by TheNewT50; 05-28-2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: .

05-28-2012 , 01:11 PM

#81

bernie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewT50

There's a lot written on it.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu.../b1579981.html

Study the above is based on:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...tyAnalysis.pdf

Interesting site with lots o' stuff.

http://www.pewstates.org/projects/ec...project-328061

another interesting study:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

I think this is taken from the above, although they're relating it to the UK, US is still shown:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ocial-mobility

Interesting link with extra links to other studies:

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/...ocial-mobility

Basically, most is based on intergenerational status and the ability to move up or down from initial families status. When you have a huge gap in income inequality, it's tougher to move up than those with a closer gap.

b

05-28-2012 , 01:16 PM

#82

bernie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewT50

cite plz?

My understanding was that America was historically better, but that advantage has eroded and it has recently become a wash with Western Europe. I've only heard this in narrative form in places like the Economist, although seems like data on the issue wouldn't be completely black and white, either.

Bold. This book has a great comparison deal between Sweden and the US, post WWII:
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/bookstore/infopoli.html

Quote:

Interesting that the UK is so low.

Reagan/Thatcher similar policies? I could be wrong about the connection as I haven't studied UK much, but they seem to coincide around this time.

b

05-28-2012 , 01:23 PM

#83

Case Closed

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 19,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

There's a Wal-Mart in Denver CO that I can walk into, buy a Mossberg shotgun, 100 shotgun shells, a bottle of Jack Daniels, go out in the parking lot, fire out some insurance paid $1k/oz street value Dro, fire up a podcast of anti govt speeches, listen to it loudly while smoking out my truck, go home, drink some JD, and shoot at some squirrels in a residential area. GOD BLESS AMERICA!! AMERICA, **** YEA!!!!

I approve of this post.

05-28-2012 , 01:29 PM

#84

DblBarrelJ

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DBJ = Case Closed Personal Speechwriter?

05-28-2012 , 01:35 PM

#85

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andz

I found this.It shows how American states compare with other countries by GDP or population. It's from 2009

http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...ates_countries

That's total GDP.

05-28-2012 , 02:25 PM

#86

NeBlis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

*starts packing bags*

05-28-2012 , 02:35 PM

#87

maxtower

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This question can be easily settled. Just visit the link and sort by "Gold".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-tim...es_medal_table

05-28-2012 , 02:39 PM

#88

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxtower

This question can be easily settled. Just visit the link and sort by "Gold".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-tim...es_medal_table

This is the real reason for the EU. Once they consolidate into one country they'll pass us on medals! They must be stopped.

05-28-2012 , 02:44 PM

#89

maxtower

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

This is the real reason for the EU. Once they consolidate into one country they'll pass us on medals! They must be stopped.

I am not worried, we'll just keep them on their toes by adding sports like Snowboarding and Women's Softball.

05-28-2012 , 07:23 PM

#90

Megastar11

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 644

The link above proves that Sweden is a vastly superior sporting nation to the USA and Britain is also slightly superior... And several other nations are superior aswell.

05-28-2012 , 08:42 PM

#91

andrew91

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 117

I've never been to the USA so I'm not that qualified to discuss this. However having watched a decent amount of USA tv, youtube clips of their news programs, Louis therox documentary on Philadelphia etc. I really believe that the whole "american dream" and "you can do anything in america" is just propaganda from the wealthy to keep people in their place. If anyone complains at working a ****ty job then the retort can just be "but you have to start somewhere", "you can do anything in the USA." etc just so they don't complain about getting paid $3 an hour.

It's the same with the healthcare. The rich don't want to pay more taxation so they have their friends in the media run scare tactics about how bad European health care is and the people believe it without realising that they are just pawns for big business.

05-28-2012 , 08:44 PM

#92

2/325Falcon

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Try watching Rocky IV, n00b.

05-28-2012 , 09:29 PM

#93

bullwinkle2004

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Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew91

that is funny. at least your prefaced your opinion by stating that your impression of America comes from America TV shows and news clips on youtube (great sources by the way).

05-28-2012 , 09:43 PM

#94

2/325Falcon

Conehead

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,907

I saw Masterpiece Theater once, so I'm pretty sure England is full of 19th century old ladies.

05-28-2012 , 09:54 PM

#95

Effen

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he's not that far off

05-28-2012 , 10:07 PM

#96

zikzak

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 2/325Falcon

I saw Masterpiece Theater once, so I'm pretty sure England is full of 19th century old ladies.

05-28-2012 , 10:09 PM

#97

jjshabado

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vixticator

Don't know. Of all countries with >80M peeps (top 16) I gotta think USA#1 is probably right. Germany & Japan could be but I'm willing to risk it. I don't think you can compare places with less than 10M to places with 300M+ (for no real reason just a hunch). I assume living in Monaco or some **** is the nuts but that hardly counts.

Lol, at not counting small countries. It's probably not fair to compare countries with vastly different natural resources but since that's the reality you have to include it in the comparison.

While "best country" is obviously subjective - I don't imagine there are many ways of measuring "best" that the US is #1 in.