agree 200%

quick research reveals we have always had a standing military - if only to fight the injuns - but it was really small outside of war

since WW2, we have been engaged in nearly constant war


I don't think of the army as an every-day security kind of force.


Maybe the police are, but they are increasingly alien. I know you personally have lauded/advocated for universal police conscription, like Rojava. I'm not suggesting something so different.

Still, the fewer guns the better. Most of our cops shouldn't carry guns either. But, I agree with the principle and I don't think a civilian defender is as likely to murder an innocent as a state authorized police officer. There's some magical thinking in the line that we just need good police and then we can entrust all authority to them. Professional police aren't all bad of course, but they will always skew more violent and authoritarian than average.

Because the part of the brain they live from.

Too funny.

You asked about the militia. Now you're asking about self defense.

Stick with one argument at a time.

This exact argument is the only reason I hesitate to say I favor banning all guns.

Of course, this isn't the argument most gun owners make. They tend to use the "protection" angle, which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I mean, I suppose it has some minimal value in that it makes people feel safer even though they really aren't. But yeah, "guns are fun" is a much stronger argument.

Along these lines, I think gun rights are one issue where incrementalism is a better approach for liberals.

Generally, I think incrementalism is vastly overrated in modern political strategy since it usually involves trying to appeal to unreliable / non-existent swing voters. Hillary obviously fell for this trap multiple times during the campaign, Obama ended up negotiating against himself during the healthcare debate, etc.

Much better to widen the overton window and start negotiations from the best possible outcome.

But with guns, the argument often breaks down into GUNS ARE BAD and GRRR NO GUNS ARE GOOD herp derp and then the gun owners start reflexively pushing back against any talk of reform because they are terrified of the slippery slope. The best possible outcome for liberals (ban all guns) is too emotionally triggering for gun owners and so it prevents negotiation from happening at all.

On the one hand I agree, but on the other hand all the most extreme liberals in congress (at least almost all) have been trying to do is ban assault weapons, large capacity magazines, pass background checks, etc.. That doesn't seem to have been working.

The protection angle works if you live off the grid in brown bear country. But thats about it.

Lol that any of you think this would be the scenario. Large portions of the military would rebel and militias full of ex military would pop up like weeds. There's more guns owned privately in a few states than all of the military combined. The deep state wants an unarmed populace for one reason only. Control. If you think any of the real underlying motive of gun control laws has to do with safety you are incredibly ignorant and naive.

No, no. Keep all the guns in the hands of 'roided up, low IQ psychopaths. What could go wrong?!

I thought the deep state was already in control...what would they do different if we did not have guns?

What role do State national guards have in potentially filling the role of a modern day militia?

LOL werewolf taking a contrarian right wing view with no actual ****ing empirical knowledge behind it after a terrorist attack? Now I've seen everything!

It would look like, and in fact and law it is, the National Guard: the modern title for the colony and state militias which date back to 1636 (Massachusetts East Regiment, forerunner of the current Massachusetts National Guard).

They don't potentially fill the role: they actually do fill the role. That is what they are and that is what they are for.

(But note that the framers of the Second Amendment were really concerned with the arming of the southern states' slave patrols to keep 'em down, and to resist any moves by federal northerners against slavery.)

Just stop already. You're jaqing off and ignoring the answers you get. Everything you've brought up is possible with gun control laws. Even your Red Dawn fantasy of asymmetrical war against the United States military. The reason we don't have any gun control laws is simple; the NRA doesn't want any. Obviously the arguments don't matter when the NRA controls the most effective lobbying operation on the planet. So just stop the wanking, there are no arguments against gun control that hold water, yet here we are.

You haven't been paying attention. If I remember correctly shortly after one of the other mass shootings in the US more than half of those polled, both parties, were in favor of some level of gun control. Unfortunately, the NRA was against it so it didn't get anywhere. That ol slope is a slippery one and if you put one toe on it off you go!

How'd did ISIS do in Mosul? Imagine how'd Y'allquida would do in some city in the US when the US Military wasn't ****ing around and got down to business. You gun nuts may have tons of guns and ammo and ****ty prepper food but that's about it.

Do these people think that every country other than America is constantly under totalitarian control? Like Australia effectively banned guns and the result was...fewer gun deaths! Same with every other country that’s implemented it. There’s no way that anyone who makes an argument like this has ever traveled outside of the US.

they overlap almost completely

the national guard is comparable to the colonial militias of the 18th century

with a major, significant exception: alienation.

YOU are not a part of it, I don't expect. Back in the day, it was the townspeople gathered with their muskets and assembled to meet whatever perceived threat.

Now it is an external entity with little-to-no local accountability.

In fairness her maj could come round to mine at any time and give me a wedgie and there's very little that I could do about it. I live in constant fear! If only I had a machine in my house built specifically to kill dozens of people in a few seconds I'd be far safer.

What answers have I ignored? Cite or ban?

The NRA is well organized and well funded, but they are not omnipotent.