From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago - Page 982 - Politics and Economics

Well, according to this site: http://concealedcarrykillers.org almost 1000 people have been killed since 2007 by people with concealed carry licenses.

02-18-2017 , 11:04 PM

#24527

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.07bbaab671bf says there have been 29 mass murders committed by people with concealed carry permits since 2007. Maybe these are't good guys with guns?

02-18-2017 , 11:06 PM

#24528

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Oh, and then there is http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/2...y-s-Body-Count which says in 722 murders committed by concealed carry permit holders only 16 where ruled self defense. Also noted was that 17 of the murders were of police officers...

02-19-2017 , 08:17 AM

#24529

sumey

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,815

No you don't get it, people like fuluck and his friends REALLY ARE the good guys. What's so ****ing hard to understand here??

02-19-2017 , 01:49 PM

#24530

JimHammer

Digg'n the gifs

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 8,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesbassman

I suppose that means if I come home to find an intruder stabbing my spouse or kids to death, I'm not allowed to use lethal force to stop him. I just gotta stand down and watch, or perhaps try to engage him hand-to-hand without using a weapon.

That's obviously insane, but thankfully our laws weren't written by people that nuts.

The only "wet dream" here is your (bizarrely sexual) fantasy that CCW holders are running around "blazing away" at bad guys. Most of the country allows CCW, and despite the rare anecdotes, that's not happening.

That's the thing, these incidents are very rare.

So is it a net benefit to have people carrying guns around in public or not? Personally, I believe it is not. Introducing guns to a tense situation rarely ends well and those few instances like where the cop was saved are hardly balanced out by all the times where someone pulls out a gun and shoots someone over a stupid argument.

02-21-2017 , 01:04 AM

#24531

fuluck414

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumey

No you don't get it, people like fuluck and his friends REALLY ARE the good guys. What's so ****ing hard to understand here??

I do know for a fact that I REALLY AM one of the good guys? So why the hell should I be punished for the irresponsible actions of others?

I'll circle back to the point I made earlier, Once you figure out a way to get Guns out of the hands of criminals, I will gladly turn mine in. Until that happens, I will continue to carry everyday.

02-21-2017 , 08:28 AM

#24532

problemeliminator

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,467

fu do you believe in other countries theyve figured out how to get guns out of the hands of criminals with reasonable effectiveness (obviously 100% effectiveness is impossiblw for any law)?

02-21-2017 , 10:25 AM

#24533

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

You aren't the one be punished fu, the extra 900 people who were murdered by CCW people were. If there was another product or service out there that killed 50 people for every 1 satisfied customer why would we let that keep existing?

02-21-2017 , 12:16 PM

#24534

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

So if you see a person getting beat to death in an alleyway, you should call for help. It'll only take the cops 10 minutes to get there, I mean, how much damage can be done in 10 minutes, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

Where is the law that says you have the right to defend someone else? I'm fine with guns being used for self defense but I'm not interested in some gun nut thinking a CCW permit makes him a cop.

I didn't see an answer really, so just to be clear, if you see a person getting beat to death in an alleyway, you should call for help and then watch, right?

02-21-2017 , 12:22 PM

#24535

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

I didn't see an answer really, so just to be clear, if you see a person getting beat to death in an alleyway, you should call for help and then watch, right?

Are you suggesting that all people entitled to carry weapons should carry weapons in case they see someone getting beat to death in an alley?

02-21-2017 , 12:26 PM

#24536

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Nope...

Asking kerowo a question to clarify his position.

02-21-2017 , 12:29 PM

#24537

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

Nope...

Asking kerowo a question to clarify his position.

Okay but you asked him what he should do knowing he doesn't carry so the answer can't be shoot the person beating the other to death so it must be something else, like call the cops try to raise an alarm let the attacker know the cops are on the way etc.

Your request for clarification is pretty loaded but if a person isn't carrying then shooting the attacker isn't an option.

02-21-2017 , 12:31 PM

#24538

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Sorry dereds, the convo was in response to him saying carriers shouldn't intervene - hopefully that clears things up.

02-21-2017 , 12:43 PM

#24539

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

I didn't see an answer really, so just to be clear, if you see a person getting beat to death in an alleyway, you should call for help and then watch, right?

If the alternative is to try to break up the fight, get so scared you "fear for your life" and shoot someone, then yes.

02-21-2017 , 12:46 PM

#24540

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

Sorry dereds, the convo was in response to him saying carriers shouldn't intervene - hopefully that clears things up.

The only stats I've found, and I apologize for using a poker analogy, show that someone being justifiably killed by someone with a CCW license is a 1 outer. That doesn't seem like a stat that makes for a good policy.

02-21-2017 , 01:41 PM

#24541

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

If the alternative is to try to break up the fight, get so scared you "fear for your life" and shoot someone, then yes.

I'd say that's a possible alternative, not the alternative.

But, roger that, one in favor of sit back and watch the victim get beat to death.

02-21-2017 , 01:47 PM

#24542

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

I'd say that's a possible alternative, not the alternative.

But, roger that, one in favor of sit back and watch the victim get beat to death.

Is it not possible to intervene without a gun?

02-21-2017 , 01:47 PM

#24543

vaya

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

...

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/02/rem...t-too-lenient/

Lol gun nuts

You're nothing but stooges who help corporations make faulty guns for a nickle cheaper

02-21-2017 , 01:56 PM

#24544

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Is it not possible to intervene without a gun?

Doesn't really matter, as Kerowo's point was that you should never put yourself in a position where you feel so unsafe that you might kill someone as a result.

Just gotta watch it happen.

02-21-2017 , 01:58 PM

#24545

Jiggymike

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Really how often does someone come across another human being "beat to death"? Not to mention the decision with whether to shoot or hold them there and wait for the cops or whatever your options are. Like self defense I get because someone may break into your house or try to mug you and it's pretty cut and dry but the whole "saving bystanders" thing is pure fantasy. The best most of these guys seem to do is fire off some potshots at fleeing criminals.

02-21-2017 , 02:01 PM

#24546

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

IDK dude, it's a hypothetical?

02-21-2017 , 04:00 PM

#24547

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

That old due in Florida who shot the guy in the movie theater when they got in an argument about talking on a cell phone is claiming stand your ground.

Good job Florida!

02-21-2017 , 04:26 PM

#24548

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

Doesn't really matter, as Kerowo's point was that you should never put yourself in a position where you feel so unsafe that you might kill someone as a result.

Just gotta watch it happen.

We are talking about intervention while armed. If you aren't armed or can resist using a gun then that's another topic.

02-21-2017 , 09:22 PM

#24549

ymmv

adept

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 726

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

I'd say that's a possible alternative, not the alternative.

But, roger that, one in favor of sit back and watch the victim get beat to death.

lol gunnuts are bar none the most masterful when it comes to unrealistic hypotheticals which fail to address the issue.

but yeah roger that! kerowo saying non-intervention is preferable is definitely the same as saying we should all sit back and watch people get beat to death rather than pulling a firearm! point, gunnuts!

hypothetical: you see an NFL linebacker with hemophelia get into a fight with a 5'2 woman who has 6 inch fake nails. WHO DOES TSAO SHOOT? Or do you just sit back and wait for one of them to die? Roger that.

02-21-2017 , 09:34 PM

#24550

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,924

Playing in the NFL seems like a poor career choice for a hemophiliac. But if you have that much info about him you probably aren't a casual bystander.

Page 982 of 1110

First

482 782 882 932 962 972 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 992 1002 1032 1082

Last

...

Page 982 of 1110

First

482 782 882 932 962 972 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 992 1002 1032 1082

Last