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From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago

12-14-2012 , 05:06 PM
odds that not only is the shooter able to age posthumously but he also has multiple personalities, some of which survived and are actively posting on his twitter account?
12-14-2012 , 05:06 PM
I note here that the United States does not have any federal restriction on AR-15 rifles (though there are complicated restrictions on various grips, receivers, etc.), which when introduced were designed for the U.S. Armed Forces in the 60s. For those with little to no gun knowledge, you know of this as, essentially, the famous M-16.
12-14-2012 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Tsao
mentally, it is baffling. physically how they could do it? no one was able to stop them, that's how.
But to have a chance at stoping them, most (if not all) people would have to be armed at all times, everywhere they go.
12-14-2012 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Key

Ok. But where does it stop? Armed guards at every school? At every mall? At every grocery store? At every gym? At every piano bar? At every private birthday party? Where does one draw the line of "Okay, there's only so many people here, we don't care if they get mass-murdered enough to station life-saving armed guards at all doors?"
Well the cops are in the schools, The common shooting seems to be school shootings so that would help. As in malls or other places, I really don't have an answer. I would prefer that I didn't need to have a gun with me 24/7 but I am sure some people would propose that as a solution.
12-14-2012 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSwag
Well the cops are in the schools, The common shooting seems to be school shootings so that would help. As in malls or other places, I really don't have an answer.
I'm just saying, if people want to commit mass murders, there are other populated areas, y'know what I mean? If you stop them one place, perhaps they go somewhere else?
12-14-2012 , 05:09 PM
I could just envision my fragile old kindergarten teacher packing a handgun.
12-14-2012 , 05:09 PM
We treat each other like dirt in America. Gun control or not, we're the most desensitized country in the world.

Also, the reduced spending on mental health issues. Heal the sick, please.
12-14-2012 , 05:10 PM
Placing a cop in a school doesn't necessarily stop this - the shooter killed himself, so dying wasn't really a deterrent. And if the shooter was the son of a teacher, he likely would have been let in anyways.
12-14-2012 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya
I note here that the United States does not have any federal restriction on AR-15 rifles (though there are complicated restrictions on various grips, receivers, etc.), which when introduced were designed for the U.S. Armed Forces in the 60s. For those with little to no gun knowledge, you know of this as, essentially, the famous M-16.
um no. they are very different rifles. notably the m-16 is capable of fully automatic fire.

standard ar-15 is illegal in Connecticut.
12-14-2012 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc999
Placing a cop in a school doesn't necessarily stop this - the shooter killed himself, so dying wasn't really a deterrent. And if the shooter was the son of a teacher, he likely would have been let in anyways.
"I don't know why my folks didn't show up today, and no, this isn't blood splattered on my shirt, uh.. I was making kool-aid at home, for the kids. That I forgot to bring. Now please let me go see them."
12-14-2012 , 05:13 PM
Fly,

It was probably something like this, he was just standing there not walking.

12-14-2012 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc999
Placing a cop in a school doesn't necessarily stop this - the shooter killed himself, so dying wasn't really a deterrent. And if the shooter was the son of a teacher, he likely would have been let in anyways.
Not to mention that a cop with a pistol isn't going to fare too well in a gunfight against someone with an AR-15 and a vest.
12-14-2012 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc999
Placing a cop in a school doesn't necessarily stop this - the shooter killed himself, so dying wasn't really a deterrent. And if the shooter was the son of a teacher, he likely would have been let in anyways.
I didn't the read the articles just saw the news story, did he murder a classroom? or did he run around the school. The cop could act as damage control if anything and keep the shooting from going from say 1 classroom to multiple.
12-14-2012 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ligastar
i hold the gun nuts partially responsible for incidents like this. they have a tinge of blood on their hands.
http://www.jewelskousen.com/2012/04/...questionnaire/

Check out the candidate questioniarre for the NRA. Note questions 9, 10, 11, and 14.

Definitely check out question #13.

Bonus: Given that this is in Utah, feel free to google Mrs. Skousen's last name!

Edit: Here is a scan of a different NRA survey but with no marks. Just as much, if not more, wingnuttery, though!
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/201...stionnaire.pdf
12-14-2012 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc999
Placing a cop in a school doesn't necessarily stop this - the shooter killed himself, so dying wasn't really a deterrent. And if the shooter was the son of a teacher, he likely would have been let in anyways.
Also we need to consider the kind of cop that would be placed in every school. It's going to be a retired cop who is going to be complacent at times.
12-14-2012 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSwag
I didn't the read the articles just saw the news story, did he murder a classroom? or did he run around the school. The cop could act as damage control if anything and keep the shooting from going from say 1 classroom to multiple.
I think a classroom + a principal and maybe 1-2 others. True, a cop can keep from escalating, but wouldn't have completely prevented. On the other side of it, wait for the budget battles when each town needs to hire 2-5 more full-time police officers to staff elementary schools.
12-14-2012 , 05:16 PM
Yes, people kill people. Guns just make it incredibly easy and efficient for someone to do so.

"if you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year, they had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?" - Aaron Sorkin.

By the way, I'd like a gun nut to try to still defend the second amendment for me.
12-14-2012 , 05:18 PM
Fox news coverage is like unironically vastly superior to CNN right now.
12-14-2012 , 05:19 PM
Michigan Legislature tries to defend their guns in school bill, goes full Tsao:

Quote:
Under the proposed law, Michigan will have the most highly trained concealed carry licensees in the nation. In addition, statistics show that in a mass shooting incident, the average death toll is higher when civilians have to wait for police to arrive. In situations where a citizen with a concealed pistol is involved as a potential victim, the number of deaths is lower on average. Therefore, having well-trained individuals with the freedom to carry a concealed pistol may be considered a public safety asset that could act as a deterrent against such shootings or, if an evil criminal does strike, may prove to serve as protection for innocent bystanders.

It is the belief of many representatives in our caucus that it is criminals who have no intention of following any law that are the perpetrators of such heinous crimes as school shootings. Strict gun-control laws do not stop criminals from committing evil acts, they merely infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens who might be able to take action against evil if given the chance.
https://www.facebook.com/MichiganHou...51291648029556
12-14-2012 , 05:19 PM
I don't think putting armed cops in schools helps much at all. First off, they'll be a bored security guard 99.99999% of the time and not ready or prepared for this kind of thing. In a more open area like a mall it would likely reduce casualties, but at the same time drastically increase the chance of innocent people hurt in crossfire. There was the shooting at the college in the past year where the shooter went into the class, barred the doors and started shooting. I think the movie theatre one was the same. You'd do the same in a school. If the shooter has no intention of living it's a tragedy that is very, very hard to stop no matter how hard the "more guns would have stopped this" people want you to believe.
12-14-2012 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biesterfield
Yes, people kill people. Guns just make it incredibly easy and efficient for someone to do so.

"if you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year, they had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?" - Aaron Sorkin.

By the way, I'd like a gun nut to try to still defend the second amendment for me.
Biesterfield hit the nail on the head, er, bullseye.
12-14-2012 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Tsao
um no. they are very different rifles. notably the m-16 is capable of fully automatic fire.

standard ar-15 is illegal in Connecticut.
"no federal law" means precisely what it says; Connecticut's laws are not federal laws, obviously

Also wrong re: M16, the AR-15 was designated M16 by the military when introduced. If the commercial model used here - no idea how we know which iteration was used - was only semi-automatic, you're technically right because this would have been a semi-automatic rather than fully-automatic design, but if we want to split hairs the receiver is identical - in fact most of the weapon is identical - and can easily be converted to fully automatic for minimal expense. For that matter you can convert caliber, etc., with the same receiver very easily.

EDIT: Point being, this is an M16 that in its commercial legal availability is not fully automatic. Better now? Pretty irrelevant point.
12-14-2012 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Michigan Legislature tries to defend their guns in school bill, goes full Tsao:


https://www.facebook.com/MichiganHou...51291648029556
How dare they rely on "statistics" to make decisions!
12-14-2012 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Not to mention that a cop with a pistol isn't going to fare too well in a gunfight against someone with an AR-15 and a vest.
First off the vest thing might be over blown again. They call a fishing vest body armor. LAPD didn't lose anyone against two guys with legit fully automatic ak47s.

Against a guy with training you have a good point, a lot of these shooters with ars couldn't even handle clearing a jam.
12-14-2012 , 05:22 PM
David Dayen ‏@ddayen I don't know what the response should be to the #CTshooting, but I know that frontiersmen who lived 230 years ago should determine it

      
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