From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago - Page 545 - Politics and Economics

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06-06-2014 , 10:39 PM

#13601

2OutsNoProb

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

"One outlier"? "Mass murderers choose guns almost every single time"? I guess golf clubs are bad weapons. I hate to break it to you, but all of the worst mass murders in US history have been non-gun.

Worst School Massacre in US history: Bath, Michigan School Massacre. 1927. Murder accomplished with explosives. 44 victims (equal to the Columbine and Virginia Tech massacres combined).

Worst Domestic Terrorist Attack in US History: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 4/19/95. Murder accomplished with a rental truck full of fertilizer based explosives. 168 dead (including many children in an onsite day care).

Worst Foreign based Terrorist Attack in US History: September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC, PA, Pentagon. Murder accomplished with box cutters and commerical airliners. 2,977 people dead.

"But mass murder only happens in America" they say:

Arson, Stabbing Rampage in Seoul South Korea : 10/20/2008. 6 people dead, 5 from stabbing. 7 others wounded, 4 seriously. An angry man felt people “looked down on him.”

Anti-police stabbing spree in Shanghai, China: 7/2008. 6 Police Officers stabbed to death, 4 wounded. 28 year old man angry at police attacked a police station with a knife.

Akihabara Massacre, Chiyoda City, Tokyo, Japan: 6/8/2008. 7 people killed (3 struck by car, 4 by stabbing), many more injured. Man slammed into a crowd with his car, then jumped out and began stabbing people to death.

Stabbing Spree kills 2, Tsuchiura, Japan: 3/23/2008. 2 killed, 7 wounded. Man “just wanted to kill anyone.”

Stabbing spree wounds 41, 6 seriously in Berlin Train Station: 5/26/2006. 41 wounded, 6 seriously. Thankfully no one died in this attack, but not for lack of trying on the part of the drunk 16 year old.

4 killed in stabbing spree in London, UK: 9/2004. 4 killed, 2 wounded. Mentally ill man attacks mostly older people.

Daegu subway fire, Daegu, South Korea: 2/18/2003. 198 killed, 147 injured. A 56 year old unemployed taxi driver, dissatisfied with his medical treatment, sets fire to a crowded train.

Osaka School Massacre, Osaka Japan: 6/8/2001. 8 children dead, 13 other children and 2 teachers wounded. Committed by 37 year old former janitor armed with a kitchen knife.

You went back nearly 9 decades for one example, which ironically enough I mocked gun-nuts for constantly mentioning in their cliched arguments about 9 pages ago.

The three incidents you mentioned combined add up to roughly 3200 lives, which is the number killed in gun homicides every 3-5 months in the US.

We're in the United States, so examples from Japan, China and Korea are irrelevant. And while your average mass stabbing in those countries - still more rare than mass shootings are here - results in many injuries, they generally feature fewer fatalities.

06-06-2014 , 10:39 PM

#13602

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroku$aki

And he's afraid Abysmal.

So terrified I carry feararms everywhere I go.

Ah, dammit, I forgot the obligatory "homie"

Last edited by 33 Big Blinds; 06-06-2014 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Gots to add the homie, homie.

06-06-2014 , 10:40 PM

#13603

Abysmal

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

I posted earlier in this thread about my reasons for gun ownership and defending gun rights. I own gun(s) because:

I should probably add to that list investment purposes since the machine gun I purchased has almost doubled in value and would probably pay for my entire collection, minus ammunition, twice over. Not that I plan on selling it any time soon.

Ok so you would continue to own guns even if you knew it decreased you're family's safety. I'm not judging. I was just curious.

06-06-2014 , 10:42 PM

#13604

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Hey that story about how a ****ing crazy person showing up with an assault rifle, and the perfect response was to hassle him with the police and then have nothing happen to him because he wasn't doing anything against the law? Was that supposed to be re-assuring? Oh gun nuts are totally decent normal folks looking out for everybody, here's a time they did nothing to make anyone safer?

P.S. Funny how someone on welfare showing up owning a >$900 luxury toy doesn't rustle the jimmies in this situation, eh?

06-06-2014 , 10:42 PM

#13605

2OutsNoProb

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

So you're saying that I am the only poker player that has been followed home from a casino because I own a gun? Hmph, I guess I never looked at it that way. Next time I'll toss my sidearm out the window on the way home so they end their pursuit.

No, I'm saying that gun-nuts ridiculously exaggerate the number of times their lives are threatened. It's either by flat-out lying in order to push the idea that guns are as protective as gun-nuts want them to be, or by seeing a threat in a normal everyday situation where there isn't one.

How come I've never been followed out of a casino (or underground club)? I've gone plenty and had worth-stealing amounts of cash on me. How come the mysterious intruder never shows up banging on my door? All the gun-people claim to have had this happen. It's the 2A version of monsters under the bed.

06-06-2014 , 10:43 PM

#13606

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb

Those were the worst mass killings in US history, none of which involved guns. I figured that was pertinent to the discussion as your exact words were "One outlier" and "Mass murderers choose guns almost every single time" to my earlier references. Seeing as those were the largest mass killings in the US, and guns were plenty available in 1927, they rightfully belong in the debate.

06-06-2014 , 10:43 PM

#13607

Chips Ahoy

help me help you

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,869

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

In Florida a sign on the door that says "no guns allowed" is not legally binding, only places deemed restricted by Florida law are actually binding.

This is not very freedom loving. Are you OK with property owners not being able to decide what's allowed on their own property?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

It is perfectly legal to carry into a Florida casino with a CWP. While it is their business, their rules, and they can ask you to leave or trespass you, as long as your firearm is concealed, they will never know.

They'll never catch me is a funny way to look at their rules.

---

I do appreciate that you have the right personality to argue outnumbered without getting banned.

06-06-2014 , 10:45 PM

#13608

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

There is not a day that goes by that I live in fear, except when I am in the rougher parts of Kingston, those ****ers are crazy. They will kill you for your shoes and not blink an eye.

Do these crazy ****ers in Kingston have any similar traits I should be on the lookout for? Lazy eye, crooked teeth, black skin? Anything like that?

06-06-2014 , 10:46 PM

#13609

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

What are you referencing now, homie?

06-06-2014 , 10:47 PM

#13610

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abysmal

You get that in this hypothetical your kids are definitely less safe if you own a gun, right? It doesn't matter how good you are with it and what security measures you have in place. You still keep the gun? What are the pros in that scenario?

Exactly, what is to stop your 14 year old, who you have taught to be responsible with weapons and have trained them right, to become depressed one day because of the way he is treated at school, and decides to come home and blow his head off with daddys gun?

06-06-2014 , 10:50 PM

#13611

2OutsNoProb

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15,991

You're either going to get your question ducked, or get told that he'd have simply committed suicide via some other means.

06-06-2014 , 10:51 PM

#13612

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy

This is not very freedom loving. Are you OK with property owners not being able to decide what's allowed on their own property?

They'll never catch me is a funny way to look at their rules.

---

Completely fine with it. I am simply following Florida law. Should they ask me to leave or trespass me, I wouldn't fight it at all. But the only reason they would ever know that I have a gun on my person is if my life is in danger and I have exhausted all other possible options. I am ok with being trespassed as long as I am still alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy

I do appreciate that you have the right personality to argue outnumbered without getting banned.

Sincerest thank you.

06-06-2014 , 10:53 PM

#13613

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

What are you referencing now, homie?

The story you just told about how you and your heroic friend down at the Bait and Tackle and Gunz emporium saved the day by having the cops hassle some bipolar dude with an AR15? You just ****ing told it.

06-06-2014 , 10:53 PM

#13614

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy

I do appreciate that you have the right personality to argue outnumbered without getting banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

What are you referencing now, homie?

He's getting closer though. Not too long before he drops an N bomb

06-06-2014 , 10:54 PM

#13615

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

I would hope to be a good enough father that my son would come to me with his problems.

Secondly, I have one gun on my hip, and the others in a 2 1/2 ton TL-30 safe. Unless he disarms me, and uses my gun, your scenario isn't going to happen.

06-06-2014 , 10:57 PM

#13616

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

He's getting closer though. Not too long before he drops an N bomb

Oh, I'm terribly sorry. Fly kept referring to me as homie, I didn't want to barge in and use new jargon. I figured that was an inside joke or colloquial term he used regularly.

06-06-2014 , 10:59 PM

#13617

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

I would hope to be a good enough father that my son would come to me with his problems.

Im glad you clarified that you don't have children beforehand.

The best dad in the world can't contend with teenage angst. You know why suicide by teenager by gun is so ****ing rampant in this country? Because the guns are in the home, and the depressed child finds a way.

You know why suicide by teenager by gun is much much much much lower in other countries? Becuase they don't have ****ing guns in all their homes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/he...risk.html?_r=0

06-06-2014 , 11:00 PM

#13618

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Oh, that story! You threw me off when you started talking about >$9000 guns. His was worth $650, give or take.

Hassle him, not even remotely close. People bring all sorts of illegal stuff into gun shops all the time. I have seen probably 25-30 M16 fire control groups installed into rifles that shouldn't legally have them. It is common practice, by good gun shops, to call the police if they are suspicious about anyone.

06-06-2014 , 11:01 PM

#13619

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33 Big Blinds

Oh, I'm terribly sorry. Fly kept referring to me as homie, I didn't want to barge in and use new jargon. I figured that was an inside joke or colloquial term he used regularly.

Yes, I am sure that is exactly what you figured

06-06-2014 , 11:01 PM

#13620

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Well, like I said, one gun on my hip, the rest in my safe. No teenager is getting in that safe, I assure you.

06-06-2014 , 11:03 PM

#13621

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Why? How is the safe secured?

06-06-2014 , 11:05 PM

#13622

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,493

Also, do you sleep with the gun on your hip? Or does it go in the safe at night?

06-06-2014 , 11:05 PM

#13623

33 Big Blinds

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Yes, I am sure that is exactly what you figured

Are you calling me a liar?

I am here for a good political debate and to answer any questions the anti-gun side might have. You and Fly have it out for me since I oppose your views, but personal attacks aren't necessary.