From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago - Page 308 - Politics and Economics

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01-10-2013 , 10:50 PM

#7676

SuperSwag

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,801

Another shooting? what a surprise? it couldn't be the machines that fire hot steel that every ****ing person in the country owns. no it's the liberals.

01-10-2013 , 10:51 PM

#7677

Pilkain

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,779

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

The shooter was apparently using a shotgun, and he got of 6ish shots (reports are unclear, could easily be 4-8) before he was stopped by an unarmed teacher.

Tell me more about how semi automatic weapons with high capacity magazines have no impact on mass shootings.

Tell me more about a proposed ban on shotguns and who proposes it?

01-10-2013 , 11:12 PM

#7678

2/325Falcon

Conehead

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,908

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

This is not a good post.

01-10-2013 , 11:14 PM

#7679

skinner3

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilkain

Tell me more about a proposed ban on shotguns and who proposes it?

Under the 1994 assault weapon ban, shotguns with these features where considered assault weapons:

Quote:

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.

So if the new regulations will be similar/identical - some shotguns will be banned.

01-10-2013 , 11:22 PM

#7680

Oroku$aki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by anilyzer

1. Make semi-auto and automatic personal defense weapons and assault weapons completely legal, and widely available for purchase by anyone over sixteen.

2. Eliminate the requirement for gun licenses.

3. Universally legalize the carrying of concealed weapons, without any licensing requirement.

4. Allow kids to carry guns in school. Allow people to carry guns into sporting events, government buildings, courthouses, airports, airplanes, etc.

5. Eliminate all background checks and roadblocks to gun purchases, including the two day waiting period or whatever.

6. Completely legalize "Black Talon," armor piercing, exploding phosphorous and other kinds of super-lethal ammunition.

7. Pass a constitutional amendment, saying that since the government has no valid dominion over its citizens right to bear arms, that no police officer should ever be allowed to say "drop your weapon" to anybody, at any time. If a cop points a gun at a citizen, that citizen has the right and is constitutionally bound by honor to point a gun right back at that cop, so that the two of them can have an honorable, reasonable and AMERICAN discussion about the legal issues and disagreements in question.

8. Eliminate all seasonal and regional hunting restrictions, as well as the requirement for hunting "licenses" which are after all just an attempt by the government to unconstitutionally restrict each man's god-given right to hunt everyday and at all hours in order to feed his family.

9. Eliminate all licensing requirements for gun dealers and gun shows, and make it a federal crime to track the sale or distriubution of firearms.

10. Eliminate all local laws and regulations on backyard shooting. Every man shall be allowed to constitutionally discharge his firearm on his own property and all hours as is his god-given right under the constitution of the United States of America, and this right shall not be infringed in the slightest degree.

They're all reasonable except 7. Externalities are necessary for freedom to exist.

01-10-2013 , 11:24 PM

#7681

Turn Prophet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Case Closed

I did not see this when I was reading earlier. I generally respect Sam Harris, but he does have some serious flaws and has been wrong in the past. I don't like this article. I'll quote and respond to some of my problems.

...

I don't get why he's talking good/evil nonsense.

My guess is because Sam Harris is gradually turning into Ayn Rand. I literally cannot believe the guy says some of the things he does. Of course, I was pretty much done with him after the fail that was The Moral Landscape.

01-10-2013 , 11:27 PM

#7682

Oroku$aki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7,063

I love that the ceo says this: "I’m not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. I’m not letting anybody take my guns! If it goes one inch further, I’m going to start killing people.” Quoting Einstein I presume.

01-10-2013 , 11:31 PM

#7683

Case Closed

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 19,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

Never read it, but this description:

Quote:

The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values is a book by Sam Harris. In it, he promotes a science of morality and argues that many thinkers have long confused the relationship between morality, facts, and science.

Sounds like a lot of fail.

01-10-2013 , 11:34 PM

#7684

<"))))><

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,545

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidemanpoker

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/...fles-shotguns/

It was very alarming for me to see how much pain and suffering is caused by this deadly weapon. I really had no idea...

So like any good citizen, I want to turn to government to protect me, my neighbors, my community, and my country from all the death caused by the hammer. Laws against murder haven't stopped the problem, so we need to do more as a society. Why not go after the real problem? It's the hammer, not the person that caused those 496 murders in 2011. Take away the hammer and you save 496 lives! So who's with me?!

I think we should follow the path of our great fellow citizen, the esteemed Rev. Al Sharpton:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/al-s...knife-control/

This caller was likely unaware of the death caused by the hammer (I know I was), but the same moral idea should hold true. If we follow our MSNBC leader, then we should follow the illness in the same way from guns, to knives, and now to the hammer to keep us all safe! We as a society should not sit idle while these weapons sit unlicensed and unregulated in so many irresponsible peoples garages. Not even so much as a background check to buy one. We need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if we care about our fellow man. If our answer is 'yes', we need change. Change we can believe in...

Arm all your school teachers with hammers and your problem is solved

01-10-2013 , 11:42 PM

#7685

ForumWithdrawal

From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,532

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

He fired twice.

Hit one kid he was after (the kid got suspended for having a hit list) missed the second kid and put his gun down when the teacher talked him down.

Tell me more about how a targeted shooting is exactly the same as a crazy person who went with the sole purpose of shooting randoms. There was a gang shooting with a full auto AK recently, one person was targeted, he was hit and other people were left alone. Tell me more about how those people are alive since he had a full auto weapon.

01-11-2013 , 12:04 AM

#7686

CharlieDontSurf

Blessed by Pope

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 14,811

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

I wouldn't go that far.

But we have people who A) say they want to reduce gun violence and B) also say they don't want to just ban all guns. Now, given those two positions, it seems that they would actually want to understand why some guns are used in violent crime and others aren't, wouldn't it? .50 cal rifles have, as far as I can find, NEVER, as in zero times, been used in a crime but I'm told any REASONABLE gun control legislation needs to ban them.

Connect these dots for me. I'm trying to give CC the benefit of the doubt here, I'm assuming he's 100% arguing in good faith. Something is missing.

Is there like a Top 10 most used guns for murder list?
Would be curious to see which guns are most commonly involved in homicides.

01-11-2013 , 12:14 AM

#7687

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForumWithdrawal

Quote:

Authorities said the shooter came into class with the shotgun, spoke to the student, and shot two to four rounds at him, striking him once. He then addressed another student by name and fired, but missed. It was unclear when Heber was shot. Police said witnesses were distracted by the chaos and they could not say how many rounds had been fired.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...s-parents.html

He also had 20 more rounds on him.

Tell me more about how much of an authority you are on the happenings at this shooting.

01-11-2013 , 12:19 AM

#7688

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

Originally Posted by <"))))><

Arm all your school teachers with hammers and your problem is solved

Answer me this: do you die more to Bowser or the Hammer Bros. when you play Super Mario Bros?

Because Bowser is a little bitch, iyam.

01-11-2013 , 12:25 AM

#7689

ForumWithdrawal

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,532

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...s-parents.html

He also had 20 more rounds on him.

Tell me more about how much of an authority you are on the happenings at this shooting.

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/l...186336162.html

Quote:

The victim was reportedly an intended target. That victim, another 16-year-old boy whose name was withheld, was taken via medevac to Kern Medical Center in Bakersfield. He was in critical but stable condition, Youngblood said.

The suspect allegedly shot a second time at the 28 students fleeing the classroom "and miraculously didn't injure anyone," the sheriff said.

Some students got out the back door, while some barricaded themselves in a classroom storage closet.

A third and final shotgun blast was directed to the windows of the classroom.

01-11-2013 , 12:31 AM

#7690

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForumWithdrawal

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/l...186336162.html

Quote:

The teenager apparently hatched the plan the night before and came into school with his brother's shotgun and pockets stuffed with ammunition. Surveillance video shows him trying to conceal the gun as he nervously enters the school through a side entrance shortly after classes began.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-targets.html

Quote:

TAFT, Calif. — A 16-year-old student armed with a shotgun walked into a rural California high school Thursday, shot one student and fired at others and missed before a teacher and another staff member talked him into surrendering, officials said.

The teen victim was in critical condition, and the suspect, whose pockets were stuffed with ammunition, was being interrogated, Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood said late Thursday.

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...gcalifxml.html

It seems clear he had two prime targets, and the number of shots fired is not yet clear. However, it seems pretty darn clear that he had designs on killing more than just two kids.

01-11-2013 , 12:31 AM

#7691

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

A third and final shotgun blast was directed to the windows of the classroom.

Clearly the shooter was a crazed Keynesian looking to create some jobs.

01-11-2013 , 12:33 AM

#7692

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Wookie, this close after sandy hook and you're stil trusting national media over local sources in these instances?

01-11-2013 , 12:38 AM

#7693

ForumWithdrawal

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,532

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-targets.html

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...gcalifxml.html

It seems clear he had two prime targets, and the number of shots fired is not yet clear. However, it seems pretty darn clear that he had designs on killing more than just two kids.

Yeah, he had a list. And he might have been going after all of them who really knows. How does that tie into the "high capacity magazines and semi auto" argument that you were trying to make? Two people were being targeted and you make it seem like the gun was the reason more people weren't hit.

01-11-2013 , 12:41 AM

#7694

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForumWithdrawal

One of those two people wasn't hit, in no small part because the shooter couldn't get as many shots off quickly. There's also a decent chance he was stopped when he was stuck needing to reload. So yes, it clearly can make a difference.

01-11-2013 , 12:45 AM

#7695

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

Clearly the shooter was a crazed Keynesian looking to create some jobs.

Wp

Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

01-11-2013 , 12:54 AM

#7696

seattlelou

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 31,584

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

Clearly the shooter was a crazed Keynesian looking to create some jobs.

Excellent!

01-11-2013 , 12:57 AM

#7697

Hendricks433

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Shotgun that does not have a detachable magazine is not the same thing as a semi auto with a detachable magazine. My argument has been that 10 round magazines do not really effect him compared to 20 or 30 rounders. A pump shotgun that holds 5-7 rounds is completely different. Besides, this kid obviously was not intent on something like the mass shootings and not the same thing.