From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago - Page 243 - Politics and Economics

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12-28-2012 , 12:33 PM

#6051

Cornboy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendricks433

His % and your random made up % are completely different.

I have no way to know for sure on #2. It's definitely possible.

No, we both made up percentages. His percentage isn't based on any data, either.

Possible? Come on. Be honest. There hasn't been one murder that was committed or one brandishing a firearm in the entire known world that wouldn't have occurred had the person not had a gun on them? You're just giving that a "Possible"?

12-28-2012 , 12:36 PM

#6052

Cornboy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Sure

OK, so, you agree that CCW have committed crimes they wouldn't have otherwise because they had a gun handy. Thank you.

Now, what would be different about the General CCW population, versus the Teacher CCW population. If we agree that the CCW population commit crimes with guns, why would we think that the Teacher CCW population wouldn't commit crimes with guns?

12-28-2012 , 12:38 PM

#6053

dinopoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,437

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benholio

Handful of lives that could be saved with magazine restrictions = no big deal, not worth the inconvenience.

Less-than-winniny-the-lottery chance of a life saved in a home invasion shooting because they had large magazines = justification for having large magazines.

Not to mention that maybe if we could get a handle on all the guns out there, the incidents of home invasions might go down too.

12-28-2012 , 12:38 PM

#6054

Trolly McTrollson

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The teacher stabbed him with a pen? Did the kid make a joke about his shine box?

12-28-2012 , 12:39 PM

#6055

Hendricks433

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

Of course if someone shot someone and had you taken their gun away they shouldn't shot the person and killed them. They also could have easily been carrying a gun if they didn't have a CPL.

After 12 years of teachers being able to carry there isn't a single incident or accident.

12-28-2012 , 12:39 PM

#6056

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

I mean, sometimes? Sure whatever, that's not exactly a high bar to jump over. However, ccw holders are extremely unlikely to commit any crime, so your point is, well, pointless.

Just wanted to use that picture for something :P

12-28-2012 , 12:39 PM

#6057

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

Someone is saying this? It's cute you think you're making a point, when in reality your embarrassing yourself.

12-28-2012 , 12:40 PM

#6058

General Tsao

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i didn't make up the percentage, i think it was the estimate in the CNN article IIRC.

12-28-2012 , 12:41 PM

#6059

General Tsao

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,575

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

The teacher stabbed him with a pen? Did the kid make a joke about his shine box?

you're conflating scenes from two movies

12-28-2012 , 12:44 PM

#6060

13ball

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

The teacher stabbed him with a pen? Did the kid make a joke about his shine box?

This post amused me.

12-28-2012 , 12:45 PM

#6061

Trolly McTrollson

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Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 38,095

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

you're conflating scenes from two movies

My bad.

12-28-2012 , 12:45 PM

#6062

Cornboy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Someone is saying this? It's cute you think you're making a point, when in reality your embarrassing yourself.

People are implying the bolded. I said that if we arm teachers, we would at some point see one of those guns used on a student by a teacher. Several people leapt to arms, saying that it hasn't happened in Utah, even though it may just be a small sample size issue, since we don't know how many teachers have carried.

What I am trying to get across is:

Some people who Conceal-Carry commit crimes with guns
Teachers who Conceal-Carry are no different than the Conceal-Carry population at large
Therefore, at some point, a Teacher who Conceal-Carries will commit a crime with a gun

I think that is pretty logical, yes? If you disagree, which of those three points do you disagree with?

12-28-2012 , 12:46 PM

#6063

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

The point is that what is important is relative rates, not absolute, aka will this increase or decrease bad outcomes. I have no idea how this is hard for you.

12-28-2012 , 12:47 PM

#6064

turbosloth

banned

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 102

accounts banned on facebook for this quote

edit* "in before but gandhi meant military arms you stupid sloth!"

still crazy what facebook has been up to

full quote btw for better context:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandhi

I used to issue leaflets asking people to enlist as recruits. One of the arguments I had used was distasteful to the Commissioner: 'Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.' The Commissioner referred to this and said that he appreciated my presence in the conference in spite of the differences between us. And I had to justify my standpoint as courteously as I could.

what a crazy **** gun nut

Last edited by turbosloth; 12-28-2012 at 12:52 PM.

12-28-2012 , 12:48 PM

#6065

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbosloth

accounts banned on facebook for this quote

12-28-2012 , 12:49 PM

#6066

Cornboy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

i didn't make up the percentage, i think it was the estimate in the CNN article IIRC.

No, you made it up. The article on CNN said, small fraction. .000001/100 and 1/100 are both small fractions.

12-28-2012 , 12:49 PM

#6067

Dyenimator

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They should be. Einstein actually said that.

12-28-2012 , 12:50 PM

#6068

General Tsao

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

No, you made it up. The article on CNN said, small fraction. .000001/100 and 1/100 are both small fractions.

Sorry no I didn't make it up, I am misapplying it, however.

It's from this article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1228792

They estimate 1% of teachers are licensed to carry, not do carry in schools.

MY BAD.

12-28-2012 , 12:51 PM

#6069

Cornboy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

The point is that what is important is relative rates, not absolute, aka will this increase or decrease bad outcomes. I have no idea how this is hard for you.

Yes, and you have no idea if this will increase or decrease bad outcomes. Acting like you do is silly. I have no idea how this is hard for you.

12-28-2012 , 12:52 PM

#6070

General Tsao

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

Yes, and you have no idea if this will increase or decrease bad outcomes. Acting like you do is silly. I have no idea how this is hard for you.

only evidence we have so far is that there have been no accidents or issues with teachers carrying in Utah schools.

12-28-2012 , 12:53 PM

#6071

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

Yes, and you have no idea if this will increase or decrease bad outcomes. Acting like you do is silly. I have no idea how this is hard for you.

Am I saying that? Or am I saying that your reasoning is ******ed?

12-28-2012 , 12:53 PM

#6072

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 12,262

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

Stop making up percentages, I just got wrist slapped for that you should as well.

And please answer the following:

Do you agree that sometimes, law-abiding citizens who are licensed conceal carriers commit crimes that they wouldn't otherwise had they not had a gun handy?

Yes or No please.

Would you like to take guns away form the police?

Do you agree that sometimes police officers commit crimes they wouldn't otherwise had they not had a gun handy?

12-28-2012 , 12:55 PM

#6073

Dyenimator

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,131

Teachers are probably one of the better groups you could arm. No matter what, as a teacher you always have the upper hand, gun or not. Suspensions, in control of grades, detention, sending someone to the office.

A scarier carrying scenario (for me) would be an office setting with a group of adults.

12-28-2012 , 12:56 PM

#6074

Cornboy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

only evidence we have so far is that there have been no accidents or issues with teachers carrying in Utah schools.

Sample size.

We have a large sample size of citizens carrying weapons legally that have committed crimes. Again, I ask: What would be different about the population of Teachers that Conceal Carry than the population of Citizens that Conceal Carry? Why would would the 2nd group commit crimes (even Ikes agrees!), but the first group wouldn't?

12-28-2012 , 12:57 PM

#6075

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornboy

Sample size.

We have a large sample size of citizens carrying weapons legally that have committed crimes at a rate much lower than the rest of the population

Lol u

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