I could see maybe 50 years in the future all non-police guns have a remote disable switch that can be activated by nearby law-enforcement, and automatically activates within 100 feet of a school etc. If you try to muck with the disable switch it sends a beacon to nearby law-enforcement. It's not an unsolvable technological problem in a completely wirelessly connected world.

I'm sure the NRA would go for that.

I wasn't talking about active spying. I was talking about once a crime had been committed, providing the info on what gun was used, its whereabouts, and who it belonged to.

VG WP sir! I was a victim of Poe's Law.

OK very good. And just to clarify, I'm talking generally about weapons, and weapons casualties... not just guns or deaths. The first little point I want to make here is this...

It's always about safety trade-offs. In certain real world circumstances, a weapons quarantine policy can most certainly be net safety positive over a comparable non-quarantine policy. One example is where unauthorized weapons will rarely get in, such as a prison.

Can I get an amen ??

I think anyone that doesn't agree with that needs to STFU.

Yes, by creating a tool that is capable of tracking any person with a gun anywhere.

And this is a bad thing because? I don't see anything in the second amendment about no tracking tools. So I think we're all good.

I don't think ikes understands how RFID is read.

Possibly, but I am sure you don't know wtf were talking about.

I don't see anything about abortion so bans are all good. No right to privacy.

ANALOGIES

Let's see, suzzer makes point alluding to the fact that gun nuts always use the 2nd amendment in defense.

Dr. ikestoys as always takes it to the pretzel illogic so-convoluted-it-hurts-your-head-to-unravel extreme of "if gun trackers aren't covered by the second amendment then abortion is fair game". If A then B, if B then C - therefore if horseshoe then cupcake.

Aaaaand we're back to not engaging you anymore.

Lol, I don't think u want to use abortion to champion your right to privacy cause because Casey was all about balancing competing interests between women and the state.

The super pretzel logic is that people have the right to use fundamental constitutional guarantees without submitting to having every step of theirs recorded by the government. This isn't hard.

I've seen plenty of assertions that this sort of policy is "bat**** insane" or now "obviously ******ed," and I'd be happy to see you spell out the argument or point me to the post where you did spell it out. I've posted maybe 20 times in this thread on this issue; why not respond to me about it?

Please, I'd like to see your wall-o-text explaining what's wrong with this argument. I definitely think the way some have presented it is hyperbolic, but it does seem evident that the majority of the worst mass shootings in recent history have occurred in places designated as gun-free zones.

The tracking discussion is horse****, because any sort of tracking scheme that would actually allow the government to track a gun like how is being proposed would require a something that's almost the size of a cell phone attached to the gun that has a big ol' battery that needs to be recharged every day. And unless the firing mechanism is linked to the battery, it won't do anything because people just wouldn't charge their gun if they didn't want to be tracked. Obviously that would never fly.

That said, even if it were lol possible, well, if you don't want your movements tracked, leave your gun at home. Home defense is the #1 or at least top 3 reason to own a gun, right? Leave the gun at home, and the government doesn't know any more about you than they knew before: your address, and that you own a gun. No one knows about ikes' trip to the strip club unless he's packing heat.

It's worth noting that this whole scheme I threw out there was just one potential hypothetical system gun companies may possibly develop to minimize their potential liability in the event that they could be held liable for guns used for criminal purposes. I was trying to illustrate my greater point that gun companies are in the best position to take measures that effectively reduce the gun violence/death problem in ways may best balance the competing interests here.

Guns are bad, mmmkay?

ikes new undertitle imo

A number of shootings have taken place outside of gun free zones. Those that have were usually stopped by cops anyway. There's no guarantee that people would have guns on them in time to stop these shootings even if they were not gun free zones. And furthermore, gun free zones aren't about stopping mass shootings. They're about stopping the kinds of gun deaths that are tremendously more common: accidents and hotheads principally, and the occasional yahoo vigilante. Halving the deaths from mass shootings in exchange for a lot more accidents and hothead shootings is not a good trade.

And so... we really must look at some other circumstances to have an informed opinion regarding the net comparative safety of weapons quarantine policies.

And that should apply both to places in general (inside prison or jail, school or college campus, factory, mall, church, on a plane, etc) and to particular places (my local bar, Newtown Elementary, etc).

Anyone still with me?

In my hypothetical prison there would be no doors. Only a big 100' high fence and you are dropped in by parachute with a gun and some ammo when you start your sentence.

Yes, this is why I said the majority had taken place in gun-free zones. This implies that some non-zero minority have taken place outside of gun-free zones.

What I find reasonable about the complaint about gun-free zones is that, given the behavior of the mass shooters that have taken their own lives rather than engage in shootouts, there does seem to be a profile for shooters according to which a gun-free zone is the most attractive target. This isn't every mass shooter, but it is a sizable number of the recent ones.

What are the rates like for these things among CCW permit holders? You posted that link the other day with something like 150 cases over a decade. I would assume that a teacher would probably be more responsible than the average CCW permit holder.

edit: I think we should distinguish between the proposal to completely eliminate gun-free zones and the proposal to allow teachers with CCW permits to carry at school.

I think where this runs into a problem is enforcing the quarantine. With a prison or jail it is easy, people expect that to be locked up.

Well luckily that's what me and RR were just doing. Are you agreeing with us up through post #5197 above?
Yeah they may be true, but I don't see that's it's at all relevant.
Already seen several remakes of that bad movie... I think it was the old Mad magazine that did a strip about a guy trapped in a movie theater called 'Escape from Escape from New York'.

FWIW - I just found out two of my coworkers are fairly avid gun enthusiasts. Both of them are the up there with nicest, seemingly most well-rounded people I know. As far as I can tell there is zero false bravado or deep insecurity in either of them

So there's that.