Prove it

https://amp.thedailybeast.com/dear-d...sleep-at-night



Good stuff

Can’t prove it but I can use reasoning and observation to back up my opinion. If putting things on television and inserting them into pop culture was not effective then matketing would not be one of the largest budgets in most companies. If desensitization was not a thing we would not all experience it in multiple ways throughout our lives. The us military has created first person shooters to recruit.

Part of the fun in these games is living out a consequence-free, violent fantasy. The draw of action movies is the same. Part of the “fun” of shooting guns and being a gun enthusiast, for many, is indulging in violent fantasy. When people act out mass killing of strangers it is living out a violent fantasy.

I know for sure that during phases of playing violent games or listening to violent gangster rap I will think more violent thoughts when situations arise that are frustrating. When I am not doing those activities, it’s not there as much. People who already lack self-control and immerse themselves in these things are influenced. You can admit that without “blaming” the game. Anyone who says there is no influence at all is being defensive and silly. I’m not “blaming” the gun either.

I’m not going to get cornered into saying it is the cause of school shootings—certainly not in the same realm of a factor as easy access to guns—or that it should be banned. I’m also not defending the nra who is using it as a distraction. It’s a symptom more than a cause in my opinion, but it is ****ing weird that we make a game of war and murder and enjoy watching violence. I still do it myself, and enjoy it, but it’s weird.

The rest of the world has video games, violent movies and TV as well dude.

Not proof, and I understand that, but in the book A Long Way Gone about the child soldiers in Sierra Leone, they describe how movies like Rambo and commando were used to get the children pumped up before sending them to battle with the idea it would blur the lines bewteen reality and fantasy.

Yeah. I know. Doesn’t change a god damned thing about what I said.

Yes, they are far superior guns. Just better almost every way. Nope, we shouldn't have them. The added problem is that if someone snaps, assault rifles will kill much more efficiently. Generally it might be smart to ban assault rifle style weapons first since they can be used to slaughter masses.

Hand guns are the same but slightly different flavor of insanity (misfires, easy to mishandle, harder to operate, easier to conceal, steal, misplace, cheaper to buy etc.).

Shotgun is much more bulkier, less accurate, prone to jamming and more dangerous to the surrounding environment imo.

Over-penetration is not that big of a problem which is helped by actually hitting the target. Also not all rifle calibers have a great penetration. Still the most likely scenario for firing a gun at home is probably mishandling the gun and the rifle bullet will cause more damage so there is that.

Again, this is all fantasy. Home is much safer without a gun and I was just speculating that hand gun might be more dangerous than an assault rifle for my home. I'm not saying that assault rifles are safe, it's just hand guns are extremely dangerous.

Someone really, really needs to make a documentary of scary looking minorities following gun nuts around in open carry jurisdictions.

Boulder area liberals now have a safe space to shoot guns: http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...iberal-leaning

Using children in bum-**** Africa before they are forced into war as an analog for us kids is just stupid.

There's probably something to the notion that our ultra-violent pop culture is unhealthy, but mother of god Johnny you have to realize this is the dumbest, most tone-deaf possible time to fight this particular battle. Let's focus on regulating access to guns and then worry about Grand Theft Auto.

Is this even an issue, given the area size of a typical room?

Dude. First off. **** hole countries, are they? Gtfo.

Second. It isn’t an analogy and was never meant to be a comparison of the situation those children are in compared to us kids. The point is that violent movies are used as a tool to influence people to commit violent acts. I hope you are being disingenuous and not really that obtuse.

Point taken. Still think it similarly ****ing stupid to blindly defend it and arguably a worse tactic. Holding a black and white position against the straw man only feeds it.

It’s perfectly legitimate to say violent culture is a bad influence AND it is not going to solve the issue. The proof is clear. The difference between us and everywhere else is access to guns. You don’t have to pretend culture doesn’t matter. That will then become the discussion and you will be wrong.

Why do you think American culture is more violent than other current or past cultures? I'll even take issue with trolly conceding such as true.
It was dumb but made like 2% sense 20 years ago to be unsure about video games. In the last generation we have so much evidence you're wrong. Countless studies.

Johnny, I hope you are not missing the obvious point that the NRA and other "pro-gun" people are bringing up video games as a way to distract the conversation away from talking about gun control.

I feel silly having to point out something this obvious.

What position are you asigning me to defend? I don’t think I said anything about American culture being more violent than other current or past cultures. Actually I know I didn’t.

Also studies that prove I’m wrong about what?

I don’t really give a **** if you want to prop me up as the punching bag for the “it’s the video games that made them do it” crowd, but it isn’t me or what I said. Sorry y’all, I am going to remain pretty comfortable having a very mildly nuanced opinion that allows me to concede that people are influenced by media to buy ****, dress certain way, get their haircut certain ways, dance new dances, talk in certain ways and maybe, possibly few different about violence and guns. The nra has a whole propaganda channel to that end ffs.

You're saying "violent culture" has shaped American violence . What evidence do you have? What is more violent about America of late? As whosnext said, these are just lazy distractions.

To be clear, I'm not saying that American culture is necessarily more violent than others. Like, I think we all agree easy access to guns is why USA#1 schools are getting shot up. That doesn't mean places like Australia or modern Western culture in general don't also have unhealthy cultural influences.

I'm not knowledgeable about these studies at all. It could be as you say, and I'm open to hearing your side. I think it's at least a discussion worth having, but doing this in the context of the gun debate is absolutely terrible strategy that plays into the hands of the NRA --who are of course completely disingenuous when they say they care about videogames or whatever.

Jeeze. I know. TLDR and the Internet is not the place for even two levels of depth in an argument but come on, y’all. I’m not advocating that video games or movies or gangster rap be ****ing banned. I am advocating having an adult position on an issue that allows you to be honest and still not fall for a rope a dope.

I’m fully willing to drop this **** since apparently the only way to tell the nra they are full of **** is to be full of **** ourselves and make a dumb argument in return. One that sounds way too much like “I have guns and never shot anyone, what about Switzerland where every house has a gun? Why are you blaming the gun for the act of the person? Why would you punish good people for what mentally unstable people can’t handle?”

Carry on. Nobody is influenced by violence in movies, music, video games the internet or tv. We all agree now. Let’s refocus since this thread will be intrical in getting gun control passed.

I just completely disagree that your average middle class kid who has parents paying $300 for a PS4, $60 for COD and watched an R rated movie on Netflix live in a violent culture. I don't think anything about the above example is unhealthy in the slightest
We can have this discussion because we're not ceding anything on guns.

Trolly, seriously though. I agree with you but the part I am discussing is how we handle it be thrown at us. It sounds to me like you are saying ignore it—don’t even engage. I can get behind that I suppose and it may be right. What I am saying is **** on it as an argument against gun control or a solution to the issue and identify that it is a straw man, but you don’t have to say it is false in order for that to be the case. Saying it is false is engaging it. Saying it is true but not that important is not as much.

The problem with this is we are not taking about stopping the average kid from committing mass murder. The average middle class kid could handle having a gun in the house without shooting up his school as well.

When you talk about the kids who are closer to the line where influence and availability of weapons matter, that’s where everything matters when it comes to school shootings. I mean access to forums. Access to videos and propaganda. Most average kids will not succumb to that **** but saying that it is not a factor is ridic.

And as far as a violent culture or not we are in the middle of an argument where people are actually more okay with giving teachers guns than they are keeping kids from having them to begin with. They would rather ban video games than assault weapons. How is this not a violent culture again?