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11-07-2018 , 02:09 PM
Healthcare. Voting. Tax Returns.

I like it.
11-07-2018 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
[/B]

Hard disagree, that’s actually an easy story to tell and in fact Republicans have spent thirty years trying to convince everyone that corporations are your job-creating friends only to find that no one really bought it and everyone hated Romney/Ryan. People have a pretty basic distrust of corporate power. What we see now in 2018 is the Rs subverting that instinct and telling stories about Soros and Zuckerberg and other capitalist boogeymen. Heck, even the Libertairans used to rail against “crony capitalism” exploiting people.

Like, it’s all over our culture. No one had to explain to the marks why the Million Dollar Man was a heel, it was just obvious he was a rich *******. Easiest sell ever. We all knew immediately that the Weyland-Yutani corporate rep was a sleazeball who was going to screw over the working stiffs on the Nostromo. No one needed a lecture on malevolent global power structures to grasp that.
The other obvious pro wrestling rich guy heel is ****ing Vince McMahon himself. He literally wrote himself into the storylines as like the great uber heel of all time. The nice thing about low brow culture is the lack of pretense and literally the most profitable, notable era of modern professional wrestling was when the owner dropped the pretense of being a babyface commentator and embraced a heel persona that relished money and tried to **** over labor. That story made sense to everyone, intuitively. And the every man hero beat the **** out of him and pummeled him and flipped him the bird at every opportunity. Crowds loved it.
11-07-2018 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
The thing Democrats don't often do well is tying their investigations into a coherent narrative that matters to people.

So, Trump/Russia as sort of this thing very specifically about Trump and wrapped in national sovereignty and election security is distant and no one gives a ****, it's just really hard to imagine why a 2nd tier country half a world away is REALLY a huge, existential threat to the world's largest military and economy (and the reality is: it's not!)

But, if you turned it around and told the story about how Russia/Trump/Putin/the Saudis/etc. really sit in the middle of a global kleptocracy and how global capital is colluding to extract resources from normal people and then launder all of the criminal stuff internationally so as to circumvent our laws (tax sheltering, environmental regulations, media regulations, etc.) -- then I think there's some opportunity there. Democrats don't tell that story well.

Trump's tax returns are the same thing but I think there are absolutely fertile ground here to tell a coherent, ideological, meaningful story. I think the messaging is a little better here on the whole.

So a huge mistake would be to make it personal to Trump. Voters have baked in everything they could ever want to know about how he's a selfish and rich and boorish and a cheat.

Tell the story instead about how this sort of tax evasion and fraud, even legal chicanery is endemic among the wealthy and those tax dollars belong in the public treasuries to help people with health care, day care, rent, education, etc. And critically, that the entire GOP exists to protect Trump wealth and propagate a system where the rich keep a lot. Use Trump as an allegory rather than be seen as trying to damage Trump politically. Use Trump to tie to the GOP and let Trump's dumb crimes rub off on the entire party. Don't give an inch of space to Never Trumpers and Serious Concerns and Deeply Troubled style politics on the right; remember that whole wing of the party is using Trump as much as Trump uses the GOP. They're wedded to Trump because he's where the voter affections are, but they play coy and try to keep their distance from his obvious malfeasance. Don't let them. These sorts of investigations are a great opportunity to wrangle in their whole party and the whole apparatus of right wing bull****.

I think the investigations are a good strategy, but you just have to employ the correct tactics and messaging. The more we're seen as the party trying to personally scold Trump: bad. The more we're seen as the party trying to protect the public interest and explaining how the public interest is subverted systemically by Trump and keep our criticisms focused on the system and not on Trump: good.
As the great Albert Einstein once said, there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by a 10,000 word article in The Atlantic.
11-07-2018 , 02:38 PM
Related thought, but one of the things Dems always do is get into wonky arguments about how the 2nd Amendment is a collective right and how this qualifier refers to a well regulated militia and other boring ass **** that no one on either side actually cares about.

They should instead write narratives with simple themes and heels the way the WWE does. The NRA is a corporate lobby group that bribes politicians and sells dangerous products to make a buck. They don’t care if your kids get hurt by their product because they’re evil corporate heels, we all know why we hate these character archetypes. That’s a storyline casual Joe Six Pack guys can buy into. Tell me Wayne LaPierre isn’t a picture perfect Vince McMahon stand-in that everyone wants to yell “boo” at.

In all seriousness, maybe the DNC should think about hiring a WWE scriptwriter.

Last edited by Trolly McTrollson; 11-07-2018 at 02:45 PM.
11-07-2018 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
LOL less than 50% turnout is considered high.
Yeah this is the ridiculous part. If overall participation was 70% all of these discussions would be massively different.
11-07-2018 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I think they can come up with reasons to hate a Taiwanese immigrant pretty easily
Pretty sure Trump could hold up a random picture and proclaim it the evil Dem Speaker and his base would hate whoever it was.
11-07-2018 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
Pretty sure Trump could hold up a random picture and proclaim it the evil Dem Speaker and his base would hate whoever it was.
Maybe, but I think it's a harder sell to make someone like Tim Ryan (white dude-OH who's talked about maybe challenging Pelosi) into an avatar of socialism or whatever. The speaker being not a white male is always going to make that an easier sell to the derplorables.

That said, I of course don't think we should just pick a white dude to avoid upsetting the sensitive deplorables too badly. Lieu would be awesome.
11-07-2018 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Hard disagree, that’s actually an easy story to tell and in fact Republicans have spent thirty years trying to convince everyone that corporations are your job-creating friends only to find that no one really bought it and everyone hated Romney/Ryan. People have a pretty basic distrust of corporate power. What we see now in 2018 is the Rs subverting that instinct and telling stories about Soros and Zuckerberg and other capitalist boogeymen. Heck, even the Libertairans used to rail against “crony capitalism” exploiting people.

Like, it’s all over our culture. No one had to explain to the marks why the Million Dollar Man was a heel, it was just obvious he was a rich *******. Easiest sell ever. We all knew immediately that the Weyland-Yutani corporate rep was a sleazeball who was going to screw over the working stiffs on the Nostromo. No one needed a lecture on malevolent global power structures to grasp that.
The point I was trying to get across was more about the inability for the electorate to focus on solving systemic, long-term problems while being overwhelmed by the daily media outrage. Sure, if you poll people they're going to have unfavorable opinions on corporate power. But that's entirely different than maintaining a concerted political movement against the interests of capital when it's trivial to drop a distraction in any number of media outlets and have it bubble up to and dominate the national "discussion".

I'm not pretending this is some new revelation since it's been probably the defining feature of our country's politics since the advent of cable news. But it's on ****ing steroids today with twitter and FB constantly pinging our brains and the negative feedback loop between media, citizens, and politicians has to be dismantled before there's any shot of addressing the significant issues we face.
11-07-2018 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
candidates matter.

beto almost won in texas. that's huge. it wasn't because establishment democrats had a great gameplan.
candidates do matter (pretty much only at the top of the ticket though) but the big story imo is the dems retaking a lot of downballot races they have been losing for a decade. The GOTV efforts to get states back was incredible. We were talking about the GOP having close to 40 governships if things went bad.
11-07-2018 , 03:36 PM
Minor rant about governorships: one thing that is utter bull**** is how many liberals vote for GOP governors in MD, MA, VT, CT. IL and NM got better but for ****'s sake there have to be so many split ticket voters in MD and MA. MA Demoocrats really didn't even field a challenger to Baker, all the prominent Democrats ****ing turtled and wouldn't run.

GOP sees Democrats in red states and see blood in the water, Democrats see GOP governors in blue states and dream about compromises and stately debates between GOP governors and their third-tier candidates. Only Democrat I can think of that's governor of a truly deep red state is John Bel Edwards, I guess Bullock if you count Montana, whereas the GOP had (until last night) like 7 or 8 governors in states Clinton won and like all of the midwest battlegrounds.
11-07-2018 , 03:46 PM


................
11-07-2018 , 03:54 PM
One thing to remember about stuff like Pelosi talking to Trump - there is not much to be gained from announcing the House is going to skull-**** Trump for the next two years. It just gives them the whole lame duck to prepare.

So try not to have a seizure if the rhetoric feels pretty tame for the next couple months.
11-07-2018 , 04:03 PM
Have you guys never dealt with old ladies? They'll stab you in the back while giving you a cookie. Nancy was raised to be a "nice lady", and the road is littered with the corpses of her enemies.

If Schumer said he'd never work with Trump and Pelosi said she was willing to deal with him on every issue, I'd expect Pelosi to be one doling out the pimp smacks. I hope she resigns before 2020, but not a lot before.
11-07-2018 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
The thing Democrats don't often do well is tying their investigations into a coherent narrative that matters to people.

...


Tell the story instead about how this sort of tax evasion and fraud, even legal chicanery is endemic among the wealthy and those tax dollars belong in the public treasuries to help people with health care, day care, rent, education, etc. And critically, that the entire GOP exists to protect Trump wealth and propagate a system where the rich keep a lot.
this message every time the gop claim SPHC is too expensive.

right now, health care is #1 with your electorate. house dems need to have a bill ready on day one, full SPHC, ship it up to the senate. force the gop to defeat SPHC and cry poor.

make small adjustment to the bill and send it back. force the gop to defeat SPHC over and over and over between now and 2020.

leave no doubt about which party will pass and fund UHC and which party won't.

health care and where the funds to pay for it have been squandered and stolen should be the lead story for two years.

refuse to endorse or nominate any candidate who will not commit to this plan.
11-07-2018 , 04:10 PM
Here's one of Pelosi's deputies.


https://twitter.com/jeremyherb/statu...61495559413760
11-07-2018 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mendicant loafer
this message every time the gop claim SPHC is too expensive.

right now, health care is #1 with your electorate. house dems need to have a bill ready on day one, full SPHC, ship it up to the senate. force the gop to defeat SPHC and cry poor.

make small adjustment to the bill and send it back. force the gop to defeat SPHC over and over and over between now and 2020.

leave no doubt about which party will pass and fund UHC and which party won't.

health care and where the funds to pay for it have been squandered and stolen should be the lead story for two years.

refuse to endorse or nominate any candidate who will not commit to this plan.
The Dem single payer bills will never be defeated by Republicans. They will just never hold votes in the Senate.
11-07-2018 , 04:14 PM
For pure drama, politics is better than sports.
11-07-2018 , 04:23 PM
Chuck the Cuck must go. Need a bull.
11-07-2018 , 07:11 PM
The problem with using a shadowy cabal of billionaires as a political tool has been demonstrated in this thread - one of the first comments after it was brought up was "Yes, but the democrat money-people benefit from it too." You can try to craft a message that would appeal to someone who might not know much about the topic - but I'm going to guess that a Trump-supporter can simply shrug when it comes to money influencing politics and say "Both sides are just as bad".
11-07-2018 , 07:30 PM
As much as we'd like to get money out of politics, the current system it still matters. Not as much as it used to in this era--but there were claims of at least 5 house seats won by dems just from that alone.
11-07-2018 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrookTrout
The problem with using a shadowy cabal of billionaires as a political tool has been demonstrated in this thread - one of the first comments after it was brought up was "Yes, but the democrat money-people benefit from it too." You can try to craft a message that would appeal to someone who might not know much about the topic - but I'm going to guess that a Trump-supporter can simply shrug when it comes to money influencing politics and say "Both sides are just as bad".
The easy solution here is to just not have a party that's deeply committed to the corporate/government power establishment and not have a candidate who gets paid six-figures to give pep talks to Goldman Sachs.
11-07-2018 , 07:36 PM
Rick Scott increased his net worth by $200 MM while governor of FL you can’t explain that
11-07-2018 , 07:37 PM
Did Alan Lawhon die?
11-07-2018 , 07:51 PM
I would have probably floated up on a beach after getting stabbed while almost being overdose high on coke if I did what he did. All while predicting the shift.

ETA: Maybe that was Awice? either way my point stands. luckbox.

Last edited by prana; 11-07-2018 at 07:57 PM.
11-08-2018 , 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Minor rant about governorships: one thing that is utter bull**** is how many liberals vote for GOP governors in MD, MA, VT, CT. IL and NM got better but for ****'s sake there have to be so many split ticket voters in MD and MA. MA Demoocrats really didn't even field a challenger to Baker, all the prominent Democrats ****ing turtled and wouldn't run.

GOP sees Democrats in red states and see blood in the water, Democrats see GOP governors in blue states and dream about compromises and stately debates between GOP governors and their third-tier candidates. Only Democrat I can think of that's governor of a truly deep red state is John Bel Edwards, I guess Bullock if you count Montana, whereas the GOP had (until last night) like 7 or 8 governors in states Clinton won and like all of the midwest battlegrounds.
Spitballing here, but think the reason for this maybe that alot of these NE states had a history of corruption back in the day under entrenched one-party rule so the voter's preference is to have a socially liberal R to keep an eye on things.

      
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