Most in the real world maybe not most in this forum. Although this thread is a good example of how many here treat it as exactly that.

Bottom line is that Franken was what a 55 year old groping or pretending to grope while coming close to groping a 20 somethings breasts while she was asleep. He admitted as much. We don't need to know anything else.

No he isn't as bad as Roy Moore. Again that doesn't matter at all here.

Did you read the details of what happened? He wrote the kiss in, insisted they rehearse it, and then slipped his tongue in. The whole thing is super skeevy. I get that on the sexual assault scale it's maybe a 2 out of 10, but it's still pretty gross behavior. The breast thing is more 0.5/10, I can maybe see that as just a joke crossed the line.

Neither is both of them telling the truth mutually exclusive. She could have not understood what the joke in the bit was and that’s why he kept pushing to rehearse it. Her strong reaction in rehearsal is exactly why he wanted one so he could keep it from happening during the shows.

Is that giving him benefit of the doubt? Yup, nothing in his political career indicates he shouldn’t get one. He has way more credibility than the judge does. If a calvicade of women come forward with new allegations things will change, but until them I’ll believe him more than I will her.

I haven't watched her video; I read her account of the incident in her blog. She consented to the kiss; but was angry with how forceful it was... which apparently was the whole point of the skit?

I think there's a significant likelihood that we should insist upon his resignation once we know everything, but there's still a chance that won't be the case... and in this instance, it seems like more information is attainable.

So, a few key things:

1. She didn't have to do the skit, it wasn't part of her role in the show. She agreed.

2. She didn't have to consent to the kiss during the show, or during a rehearsal; she did.

3. She was on the trip as a model/emcee, not as a soldier. It's a small distinction, but it does matter a little bit.

A few things I want to know before deciding how significant this is, and whether it rises to a level requiring resignation:

1. I am not familiar with Franken's comedy routines or his SNL work - was this sort of thing common to sketches he was part of on SNL? If so, it somewhat makes sense to include something like this (a sketch including him as a pushy male).

2. Did he regularly rehearse his sketches before USO shows? This should be somewhat easy to find out. If not, then it was obviously pre-meditated sexual assault and he's gotta resign.

3. Did he regularly take goofy pictures that were in poor taste?

4. Are there any other accusers? If he used his fame/status to put women in uncomfortable positions like this, it would almost certainly be a pattern since he would have frequent opportunities to do this.

I also think it's very important to note that there is a big distinction between:

Roy Moore should drop out, if these allegations are true.

(There's not going to be any way to know 100% for sure, and no process to get more information. There are four (now eight) accusers. Also he was in public service at the time of the offenses and used the power of his position to intimidate.)

and

Al Franken should resign, if this allegation is true.

(We could very well get more information in the coming days/weeks, and can decide then. He was a comedian at the time, which complicates things. She gave a level of consent.)

I don't think wanting the information before calling for people's heads is bad/wrong, especially in cases where there is likely more information to be had.

People are in a rush to show their moral superiority by calling for resignation here, but I feel like we can get more information and then call for the necessary steps.

All that said, his first statement/apology sucked, and his reputation is sufficiently tarnished such that the rest of his career will be impacted significantly, even if he keeps his job.

Also, regardless of the truth of these allegations, to some extent the timing and the connection to Hannity does make this a strategic political move to distract from the Moore allegations and try to create a false equivalence where one does not exist.

It does not exist, because the left is calling for Franken's head before we even have all of the facts over one incident, while the right (including the local established power structure of the right) is still supporting Moore after eight (or whatever we're up to now) accusers have come forward.

What if he remembers it such that he did nothing wrong, should he still resign for the greater good? Keep in mind that resigning is also basically a full admission of guilt that brandishes him a sexual assaulter for the rest of his life, in the eyes of the public, his friends and his family.

What about a comedian taking that picture in 2006? Like, I don't think it's funny... I think it's sophomoric, and I think that's being generous to Franken. It's stupid, it's low brow, and it isn't funny which is the only thing that redeems some comedians for their stupid low-brow jokes... But there are worlds of difference in a sitting Senator doing it and a comedian doing it.

She could have said no to being in the entire skit. Now, whether she felt any pressure from his fame/power is the issue at hand in my view, and a very important issue that we need to discuss more as a society.

tldr; Franken probably needs to resign soon, but let's hear some more facts since they will likely be available, and see how he handles it before we call for his resignation. I trust that the left and Democrats will stand up for morality here, so I'm not too worried about waiting for a hearing on it.

You should probably watch her interview for her account of the kissing stuff. It isn't how you describe it.

So the interview is different than her blog post? I'll watch it later when I have time. By interview, you're talking about the 25 minute clip posted up the thread a little ways?

Yes

RIP Benny Hill.

I watched the first 15 minutes of the video - her account of the kiss didn't seem that different from the blog to me. I mean, unless it literally wasn't in the script? She wasn't really clear about that.

The stuff about harassing her with the pictures was stupid/childish, though, and puts the picture while she's asleep in a very different light. His character is obviously not what we thought/hoped it was...

Ya, and her account of the kissing stuff goes into more detail.

She describes how unpleasant the kiss was, I guess... That's pretty easily inferred from the blog post. The facts are the same.

She's describes a somewhat coerced kiss. "He kept insisting..." That sort of stuff is a little more serious than an unpleasant kiss.

Cuse, the kiss was coerced. I could even tell that from the blog. Didn't need an interview to indicate that to me.

The kiss was scripted. The rehearsal was coerced. I need to know if rehearsing skits was standard for these USO shows, because if so then his insistence upon rehearsing was not predatory. I need to know if this type of skit was normal for him/USO shows, or not. If it was, the script in and of itself wasn't necessarily predatory.

As far as I'm concerned:

Rehearsing unusual -> Resign
Script unusual -> Resign
Pattern of behavior -> Resign

All three are things we are likely to find out within a couple of days... So, why rush to call for resignation now?

Or, if you found out that it was standard to rehearse these skits, the content was standard, and nobody else came forward to say Franken was inappropriate, would you still think it was right to insist upon his resignation?

I think we should assume her to be telling the truth unless it is proven otherwise, but it's not like he's up for re-election in a month... We can take a few days to a week to see what comes out of this without that turning us into monsters or hypocrites.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much every other high profile accusation has been followed by a bunch of additional accusations, right? If she's telling the truth that he did this, the likelihood is that others will come forward, and we'll be extremely confident in demanding his immediate resignation. If that doesn't happen, I think he deserves this ethics investigation before we bury his career.

I also don't know how I feel about even thinking along these lines, but she does have a lot to gain career-wise from this. Again, I will assume her to be telling the truth unless it is proven otherwise, but I think it would be a mistake to insist upon his immediate resignation before seeing if there are more facts.

If nothing further came out and he disputes her account in the investigation, I'd probably say he should still resign and if he wants to run in a primary for the special election, he has that right, but the party should oppose him, and the people of Minnesota could decide. I assume he'd lose, but who knows?

Maybe I'm a huge partisan hypocrite, but I do think his case is very unique given the specifics of the accusation and his being a comedian at the time.

Don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but apparently there's a 2nd accuser?

https://mediaequalizer.com/brian-mal...arassed-me-too

Except there's no sex in the "assault." He called her 3 times to win an argument. If there were threats involved they were not spoken threats or I'm sure they would have been in the piece.

This is so frustratingly bad by the democrats it's unreal.

They had a great chance to grab a whole bunch of republican voters by showing a complete contrast to the whole Roy Moore thing.

It's like they've forgotten that they don't need to deal with the lunatic 30% of that party to win. It will also have a reinforcing effect for republican voters who distrust the dems.

Idiots.

This is half a day old, lol at thinking it's over or that anything the Dems do isn't going to be spun by the Republicans to make the Republicans look better.

Did you read it? Her allegation is that they had a political argument over the budget on the air, and he continued the political argument over the budget backstage, then called her at home on a few occasions, presumably to argue over it - as she doesn't allege otherwise. She says she felt threatened by this behavior... Which, I guess is her prerogative? Unless he made threats or did anything remotely sexual, this was a political argument.

I was seriously ready to say, "OK, resign, you're a serial-sexual assaulter..." until I clicked the link and read it.

To be a second accuser, I think you need to be accusing the same person of the same thing. I'm not sure what this person is accusing Franken of exactly. That was really stupid and I want the 30 seconds of my life back please.

But as an aside, what side of the aisle is Maher on these days? Because I've heard rumors about that guy for 15 years.

He made phone calls wat? Media Equalizer and Media Equality Project Co-Founder Melanie Morgan

What are the Democrats supposed to do here, in your view? If it's categorically insist upon his immediate resignation, I think that would be stupid... It would open the doors to a slew of unfounded allegations against sitting Congressional Democrats trying to force them all to resign.

I think the process here is pretty simple. Get the available facts, call for his resignation depending upon them.

The idea that there are Republican voters who can be picked up by doing something the Republicans aren't doing implies there are Republican voters who have qualms about what their party is doing. There is no evidence these qualms exist.

The thing is unfounded and baseless accusations are really easy to disprove - hence the lunacy on the republican side about constantly denying it and saying all the women are liars.

The reality is people who grew up in a certain era where exposed to a whole bunch of socially acceptable, at the time, behaviours - that we all now know are forms of abuse.

These aren't bugs, they are features - of a time and place if you will.

Ultimately I think if that was laid out quite clearly to Al Franken - I hope he would understand how continuing undermines everything the left is trying to fight against.

Then again he might be a legacy maker and think **** it.