This thread is the perfect example of how politics is a team sport for most. Those advocating for Franken should be ashamed. Is it the worst thing ever? No. But it is clearly sexual harrassment (just the picture alone, let alone the stuff that isn't directly admitted by Franken). It is clearly wrong and most of us would be fired if we did that to a co-worker. The double standard displayed from those going after Tweeden because of her political views are despicable when there is irrefutable evidence that Franken is in the wrong including an admission and apology from him.

No, this is classic brain-dead both-sidesism, where the relevant standard is eviscerated in order to draw a comparison in service of a political objective. Again, she may even be correct and further evidence will come out, but allow one to withhold judgment when suspicious accusations are uncorroborated.

And please don't convict Franken based on a statement that he could have behaved better. "Could have behaved better" is not anywhere equivalent to "confirmed sexual predator", like Trump and Moore and Weinstein.

Note that the people pushing this story were also the ones pushing Behngazi and Uranium One, so don't be surprised, even if she is shown to be a liar, if they press forward zealously for months. You are playing their game, and if it is a game, I look forward to Dvault walking back his rush to convict because "the women should be believed." He wants Franken to resign but probably doesn't feel like Trump's 18 or so accusers are sufficient to justify his impeachment.

At least you have a former chief justice and future senator on your side.

Sorry, i'll admit I'm lost here. I thought this is the same thing you were referring to previously with "weaponized treachery"?

The picture alone is not in dispute and is bad enough. No one is saying he is on Roy Moore's level. Also that isn't relevant to the culpability of Franken.

This is exactly what deplorables say about liberals and feminists. This is why only 18% of Republicans believe the women who accused Trump. Are you better than them or not?

edit: This is also why Bill Clinton was allowed to rape, harass and threaten women, who were happily painted as liars and gold diggers for years by idiot liberals.

I really don't know, maybe? Im not trying to white knight for Franken. I'm just fearful that the same party that has used every other despicable trick in the book to win elections is getting another powerful one.

For most? Who are you talking about? Most means more than 50% you know?

Franken should resign.

Note that I am all in favor of the Senate immediately empaneling a joint Roy Moore, pedophile, and Al Franken, guy who posed for an inappropriate photo on comedy tour, commission to get to the bottom of this.

Am I wrong to see a distinction between a comedian taking a semi-inappropriate joke photo with part of his comedy team--where the whole environment is to one-up people for laughs, sometimes inappropriately--and, say, believing similar photo with Mitch McConnel doing the same to a Senate staffer distinguishable? Even in the latter case, I don't that it would warrant anything worse than a public reprimand.

So, it comes down to whether he was too kissy in a way that was objectively inappropriate as opposed to industry-standard. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Did they only do the show one night? Did they ever rehearse again? Did he write in the kiss, did she? Don't know, but such things would seem relevant. In any event, it's not exactly a request to masturbate on her, ala Louis CK. (Which, incidentally, I would find worthy of strong censure, and potentially expulsion).

It's difficult to find just the right level of moral panic in the midst a largely justifiable moral panic, but it's our duty to make an effort.

simplicitus,

I don't think women always need to be believed under any circumstance, but the pic is inappropriate and if the kiss story was total BS he should have called it total BS instead of not remembering it that way.

it was simpler times back then in show business, everybody knew franken was a hippy back in the day, there's no reason that this photo (taken at a time when he was a professional comedian, producing comedic media as a career) disqualifies him to be senator.

blazing saddles doesn't play the same way in 2017 as it did when it came out, does that make mel brooks a scumbag in 2017? "feeling-up-passed-out-girls comedy" does not play well in november 2017 for sure

franken never molested anyone. he was a career comedic actor for many years, he did weird stuff for comedy, there's no evidence that he's a sexual pervert as a part of his real personality or his life. if people he worked with or whatever come forward with more then i'll change my mind but c'mon guys

What's the matter with Blazing Saddles?

I don't even know what to think lol.


She was a Hooter's girl and Playboy model and the boob thing is bad? I mean I would never do that to someone but can't imagine that is close to the worst things she's received and would be interested to know other models' opinions about that. I can't post the NSFW photos of her.

The Sheriff is a [clock bell chimes]

He can’t call the kiss BS out of the gate and you know that. He realizes he is inside of the hit job and he is playing the game how it should be played. Recognize game bro don’t act like your some spring chicken.

There's no remembering better at a later date. It's her word against his apology and failure to remember. And an apology doesn't cut it for holding someone's head and forcing your tongue in their mouth.

I actually agree with your second point, and the earlier post that he should have come out stronger to rebut her on the kiss, if he has a rebuttal. Still, I guess I am willing to live in a world where a guy does not lose his senate seat for kissing someone too much (which he may have thought was a funny "bit") in the context of a rehearsal for a sketch in which he kisses her. Even if he acted with lust and disregard for her feeling, I'm willing to score a serious point against him, but I also feel that we should not all be judged by the worst thing we do in a bad moment--again, however, if this was a regular thing with him, like it was with trump, then I'll get my pitchfork out of the shed.

As far as the picture, I think it's PG, and not PG-13, in the context of a USO comedy tour. It was the aughts, people were high on life, no one ever expected a Trump (and the useless killing of hundreds of thousands of people while also busting the deficit just wasn't that big of a deal.)

Ya, i believe the accuser until proven otherwise. But man, hypothetically, if she is lying or exaggerating Franken is in an unbelievably tough spot and I have no idea what the right way to react is.

I'm conflicted, because even if it's entirely true, Franken coming out with "she's a lying scumbag making false accusations" is probably not a good play in the current context.

Bottom line is unless more accusers come out there is no way he is stepping down or being expelled for this.

Exactly.

Dear people who don’t want bd things for Franken because he’s a dem,

If we actually held Bill Clinton responsible for what he did to Monica, we probably wouldn’t have trump in office.

Threads like these shows that outrage against sexual harassment is really a minority of men. Most are like the ones in NVG finding some way to blame the woman or lessen her reliability by damaging her character.

Speaking of character attacks...

Word.

Whataboutism is definitely not exclusive to the GOP.

=================

It should be noted that this being a hit piece and Al being in the wrong are not mutually exclusive. Even if this was an event where Tweeden was dramatizing and acting to exaggerate the allegations, Al still did what he did. If he didn't do what he was accused of, he would deny it.

The "Believe Women" is beneficial because it encourages women to come forward and share their stories without feeling ashamed of themselves. At the same time, it also implies that the accused are guilty because a woman says so. I'm sure that wasn't the intent by its creators, but it is there. I'm not sure if there's a middle ground between the two. Perhaps a better name could have been used. Even better, perhaps men shouldn't feel entitled to a woman's body just because they are rich and powerful.

this story isn't the result of investigative reporting from an objective respected source, it's just sean hannity's friend right now, let's not jump to conclusions

It would look bad, but even if he had to resign for looking so bad he should have given the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth and he should have done it immediately, reflexively, and without stratagem.

fatkid dupe?