Guys, guys,

This is locker room. Nothingburger

Had to look up whether MN's gov was a D or R.

I bet Rocky wishes he was a Dem senator right now...

I guess my entire point is that we're never really going to reach the did or did it not happen phase because the only way to actually start traveling down that route is for the accused to actually issue a denial in the first place. The kiss happened.

At best, we wrangle over how bad the accusations were exaggerated, and maybe, hopefully, its not legally sexual assault.

Intentional obtuseness is the internet's greatest gift to the world. Everyone you're talking with understands this intuitively but they're gonna make you waste all your time explaining it to them patiently before solemnly declaring that while you might be right, Franken deserves his investigation rather than Leeann Tweeden deserves to be believed. EVEN AS Franken apologizes for being a creep. Because Duke lacrosse or whatever the popular "lyin bitches get you every time" folktalk anecdote is these days.

"Nice rule of thumb ya got there, I acknowledge it should be followed in principle, never in practice."

Wut

Roy Moores story had 30 corroborations and multiple women, all under 18. And that was just when the story broke. This story has one woman with zero corroborations so far. But saying hey, let's see if that kissing stuff is confirmed is being hypocritical?

I'm on the fence about the pic alone being enough. I guess that's where the debate really hangs, if it is enough obv he should resign. It might be, it's definitely creepy and inappropriate. It was also meant as a joke and not some sort of sexual assault, but it was a super poor joke in awful taste.

Her allegation relates to a skit where he kisses her. So the baseline is that they kiss. 100% ok, done every week on snl. The joke on snl is often the kisses go way over the line. The damning claim here is that he wanted to rehearse the kiss and went too far. If true it's bad, but again i find it odd the only allegations are from a friend of Hannity, with apparently no witness. That and a fake breast grab photo in a room with at least 4 people, when such photos are a completely standard trope. Also, i doubt it's even possible to sexually harass a sleeping person if you don't actually touch them. You could do some inappropriate things, but would not be sexual harassment.

You guys are going to summon the demon here--hot takes from elders about PC culture gone wild.

But why do you hate women?

That picture should be the standard of "fit to hold a Senate seat"?
woof.
I'd like to see a poll on that.
And know what percent of the population could pass that standard.

If reducing Leeann Tweeden to a "friend of Hannity" is something you do in response to these allegations, I think there's still quite a lot of work to do on instilling the norm of "believe women" into our society

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/360...ts-his-apology

Most boring scandal ever.

Tweeden:You acted inappropriately.

Frankenstein: Yes, I acted inappropriately.

Tweeden: Ok that's all I was looking for.

What the **** is wrong with you people. He did this to a co-worker. **** off if you think this is ever okay. I don't give a damn that he was a comedian, this is always sexual harassment. Oh and simplicitus, wtf? You can't sexually harass her while she is sleeping unless he touches her? Are you serious? Did you recently have a stroke or something?

For me, the point of the slogan is that woman making allegations should be presumed credible insted of the opposite. And when there is 3 or 5 or whatever, that is strong evidence. But I think it's a wee bit hasty to call on someone who is widely regarded as a kind, thoughtful, and caring individual based on an ambiguous and ambiguously phrased allegations of someone whose job it is to smear libs like Franken. Maybe he is a harrasser or whatever. The Packwood ethics inquiry was 10 volumes and was damning. Maybe the Franken one will be too, but nothing in her post has led me to update my priors more than a few percent.

You seem to be presenting a false dichotomy. If there was no there there, they would not be conducting an investigation. You get that, right? Like, if no one believed her, there would be no interest in an investigation.

Alright great work everyone, lock this thread up

I agree Franken's take is better than a flat denial.

"But Republicans" is such a bad look. Just don't, Democrats.

If they were both just soldiers, it would be fairly trivial. As Franken is holding and prospectively seeking public office at a very high level, it's not trivial, because politics is optics.

This one is even a partisan layup since Dayton can nominate another Democrat. What's the point of this? To save Franken's good name? He apologized for being an *******!

AT LEAST if it was a GOP governor we could have some meta "well, it would be better for women if the GOP didn't control the Senate" sort of navel gazing thing. I wouldn't be compelled but at least it's coherent.

Maybe the army still sucks, I don't know. If I did that to a female sailor 10 years ago and that picture got out I would have been ****ed. Non-judicial punishment with a reduction in rank and restriction would have been all but guaranteed. Getting a less than honorable discharge would have been well within the range of reasonable punishment.

Do note that Franken was neither holding nor seeking public office at the time. He was a comedian doing a radio show.

Does Tweedens reply to Frankens apology change anyones view on the snap resign?

Same thing could have been said about Trump and the Grab Em By the Pussy incident. That's not really a good rationalization.

What if they are both telling the truth?

Nope. 200 posts at least.