Or he doesn't want to attack her, and is going to let the investigation and witnesses speak for themselves?

I think people are being extremely reactionary because of the Roy Moore stuff, wanting to show we're better than the other side. Wanting to end this guys career before there is even a single witness to corroborate the story.

If she is exaggerating or lying, he's taking about the highest road possible.

yep completely done-zo, that picture is absurd

Really strange picture

nvg

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...g-her-1695887/

Some people falling into the easy to avoid but oh so tempting "both sides!" trap. I'll be more concerned when someone who isn't a conservative pundit and friend of Hannity comes forward with evidence and not some version of a joke photo that is more damning for the accuser than the accused--because if that's evidence I vote not guilty.

What's to corroborate?

Quote Al Franken:

Seems like an open and shut case, per Al Franken. "It's completely inappropriate and obvious how Leeann would feel violated, women should be believed, OUTRO: now let's investigate this" is completely nonsensical.

If it’s what you say, I love it

Is she well known for making stuff up? Otherwise I don’t see the problem believing her.

Like, if Rush Limbaugh came out tomorrow and said RBG sexually harassed him and she needs to get booted off scotus, I’d be very unlikely to believe him.

Just because this person is conservative doesn’t mean they’re automatically a liar.

One other piece of evidence that she's probably not making stuff up is that he's photographed looking like he's squeezing her breasts with a big grin on his face and apologized for doing it mindlessly and admits it's extremely violating.

You can't think women should be believed, and their stories heard without attacks, while at the same time knowing the personal account against you is a lie and wanting to be vindicated?

If he's guilty of everything she claims I agree it's pretty scummy.

If she's lying and exaggerating and he knows there are witnesses, I think supporting women in this crazy climate and encouraging them to be able to come out without being attacked, while still encouraging ethics investigations into whether it's true or not, is the best play easily.

Like are you serious, just resign with no investigation because a single woman accuses him, a right wing tea party talk show host. And within a week every single democrat will be accused of sexual assault.

You can support women, encourage them to come out and speak against sexual assault, while still full well knowing the accusations against you are grossly exaggerated or false. It doesn't have to be either or.

Don't be daft.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42018154

There's no political way back from there.

Obviously I'm referring to the kissing rehearsal allegations which is the worst part of the story.

I don't think there's any good way for him to apologize except sitting down with her for a face-to-face talk.

Both can be true:

- Hannity/conservatives have been asking around and digging for any dirt on Dem politicians to take someone down, to balance out the Moore stuff, and this photo is the best they've come up with.
- The photo is bad. It's not grab 'em by the pussy bad, or 14 year old girl bad, but so what. A senator taking a joke photo where the joke is 'haha, I'm pretending to grope this woman while she's asleep!' is bad enough given the climate we're in that he should resign.

Trump's America tho...

Right. I know it's obvious. The question is why we need an investigation into Al Franken's potential unacceptable behaviors when, according to Al Franken, he behaved unacceptably, Leeann is justified in feeling violated, millions of people are rightfully disgusted and women should be believed.

Demanding an investigation seems openly contradicted by Al Franken's own apology where he says everything we need to know.

If the picture is bad enough that most feel it justifies a resignation, I'm on board with that.

Until we see some corroboration, this is the Uranium One of sexual harassment allegations. Roger Stone knew of this beforehand. It's a hit job based on immature photo and a kiss that may or may not be innocent. If it was for a rehearsal, then there will be witnesses.

It seems pretty obvious that he is saying Leeann is a liar and is proceeding accordingly, but (possibly correctly) believes he can trick the credulous into believing he's doing something else by saying the magic "sorry" word and tossing some word salad about believing women.

Generally speaking, it seems better to interpret "believe women" as a rule of thumb to remind everyone that false allegations are rare rather than as a literal commandment to believe women even if you have direct personal knowledge that they are lying. I don't think Leeann is lying, but if she was and Franken knew it, why should he not be expected to just say so? You're paradoxically giving him greater space to weasel around by creating an exception to the expectation that he clearly state what he is claiming happened.

If this photo was Roy Moore and the girl was over 18, then I wouldn't be concerned about Roy Moore (other than the 10 other things that disqualify him for office.)

Believe the woman is a rule of thumb, not an axiom.

You have a picture and Franken's apology where he acknowledges he behaved unacceptably and he understands why Leeann feels violated and millions of people should justifiably feel disgusted.

What are we corroborating?

This sounds like Roy Moore's apologists waiting around for evidence they know will never arrive and never convince them; that they can dissect, debate, and ultimately throw up their hands and say it's he said/she said. Maybe they hit some sort of "she's no angel" type information about how Leeann did this questionable thing or that during your investigation.

There's no need for an investigation. He behaved like a clown, admitted to doing bad things, there's really no reason to doubt her particularly in light of the fact we know he did other stuff he's now saying he acknowledges were hideous, so it's a pointless exercise.

"Believe women! It's critical! (unspoken: but not this one)" is pretty ham handed bull****.

Umm, no. The photo is enough all by itself. It’s obviously sexual harassment and anyone in any position should be snap fired if something like that photo came out.

Like the defense here seems to be, oh tut tut, we're way better than Roy Moore and those lousy GOPers who walk around saying "if true" when faced when sexual harassment allegations. We're true champions of women and leave it implicit instead of explicit.

Except it's sort of doubly bad because Al Franken is trying the Carter Page testifying in front of the Senate committee gambit: yeah well I did it, now prove the worst of it.