I'm not saying she was in on the joke. I am saying that she was a part of a tight-knit group that had been through a lot and was being hazed/harassed, which is about as uncommon as rain. It's not like she's some lady he sat next to on a flight and started madly groping, Trump-style, or an executive assistant or actress at an audition subject to the perversions of Weinstein.

I am not struggling with the issue as much as you. My only concern is the unwanted kiss, which is potentially significant, but given that it looks and smells like a hit job, it may be a hit job.

It's not hard. Do the right thing, let the serially and terminally dishonest right-wingers do whatever they do. The goal isn't to win over Sean Hannity or shame Sean Hannity. Who cares what they say?

Repeat:

Note that second to last sentence should say:

This is a reasonable take (except for the 'but republicans!' part) and kind of where i am.

However, basically every other post you've made itt should be embarrassing for you.

Absolutely. Never excuse our bad behavior or lack of decency because of what others do.

There's a video of me naked, chasing my ladyfriend down a hallway, trying to snap her with a wet towel. It might look problematic, but the context wasn't even sexual; there was a prank war/jackass battle and she was trying to smack me with a broom when I came out of the shower but I got the drop on her because I'm more wily.

I was hoping Franken would have this as an explanation but twas not to be. I can't fanfic a pic of Tweeden punching him in the dick while he slept.

It just goes to show how most leftists, liberals, etc. are the world's worst strategic thinkers. They don't have a ****ing clue what they think, why they think, how they get gamed by the right again and again.

Repeat:

If your reaction and interpretation of events in the world is shaped by right wing political TV pundits ("we could condemn Franken but the grand conundrum here is the moral hazard of right winger TV pundits and their deplorable armies might lead us down the slippery slope of believing made up accusations of sexual harassment!") -- shaping how everyone reacts and interprets events and maintains power is *exactly what ideologues do.* Fox News pundit class would love nothing more, really nothing more than to haul every accuser of a prominent politician in front of a Congress committee for testimony. Embarrass em. Make them feel uncomfortable. Send them back into the shadows.

They are semi bluffing. They win either way. Either you **** all over Franken (not hard to do for anyone, he admitted to very creepy behavior) or they get their "women might be making this up, need investigationz, questions must be answered, innocent until proven guilty, better safe (for men) then sorry when it comes to serious allegations like these" -- the view of the world they insist on. The view of the world they relish. The Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes and Sean Hannity view of the world.

Just fold the Franken hand. It's easy, he did wrong. Let it go. It's the right thing to do.

But, no. Can't. Gamed again and again, again and again. America is a flaming dumpster fire right now because a bunch of shameless idiots are outplaying their opponents. Even the left's putative attempts to stand up to Sean Hannity and demonstrate he's an insincere clown get Sean Hannity what he wants anyway.

Sexual harassment is cool when it is hazing? This is one hell of a scorching hot take. Maybe grab a couple cups of coffee before continuing to post.

a republican would never get in trouble for this behavior so this is very frustrating.

but, hey, I think this one area where it is important to take the high road and act with better morals than the other side, even if it hurts you or your team.

I may be wrong about this and if it unleashes a stream of questionable or weak allegations against dems then obv they would need to change their response and approach.

but for now, franken is donezo.

That's another funny thing. If this were Schumer or Bernie or whoever I would likely be less vocal. But i wouldn't be surprised if this lady is 5x tougher than Franken and he will be scarred by this whole thing, lumped in with despicable people like Weinstein, Trump, Spacy, Moore, etc.

Again, this hot take does not apply if he turns out to be a serial abuser and not just a guy who posed for an offensive pic (and who may have gone way over the line with an unwanted kiss.)

What i am saying [supa hot take coming]: is that Franken may be the real victim here, and people like Dvaut and other paragons of propriety, the victimizers.

Woman: I was assaulted
Man: I did a lot of what you say, I'm so deeply sorry, let's investigate myself
simplicitus: it's okay, Man. You are the real victim here.

this is whataboutism

I get what you're saying, that's why I put "in on the joke" in quotes. I was referring to Franken not simply saying this also.

I think the struggle is over, that's why I bounced around ideas ITT.

This is very galactic brain stuff... impressive.

this actually happened.

This can only ever be explained because I left out the real world thing that, GENEROUSLY, is triggering the simplictus types:

Woman: I was assaulted
Man: I did a lot of what you say, I'm so deeply sorry, let's investigate myself
Deplorable America and Sean Hannity: see the Democrats are at again, sexually harassing women, they must all resign from Congress. Next up, American hero Roy Moore and his fight against Fake News
simplicitus (shocked, galled, tilted, thinks he's being put into a corner before the wrong light bulb goes off over his head): it's okay, Man. You are the real victim here.

simplicitus is triggered because of Deplorable America and Sean Hannity. As I said, just first level thinking. Sean Hannity is a moronic troglodyte but getting leftists to stampede to patriarchal rhetoric to discredit accusers is what he wants anyway. The whole game is getting back to the universally accepted norm that Bitches Be Lyin and, generously, they've goaded reasonable people like simplicitus into playing along.

Other possibility is that simplicitus is just wretched and awful here.

this is undoubtedly the worst take of the thread. congrats!

1. not a single republican is transferring to the democratic party if the dems denounce franken and force him to resign.

2. the left and dems actually ARE treating this a million times better than the repubs. notice how it is pretty split on if franken should resign and most people are willing to admit that he acted inappropriately.

do you realize how the repubs would act if some d-list wannabe democratic pundit, who had posed for playboy, accused a republican senator of merely coercing a kiss and taking a joking picture?

first she would be smeared a total golddigging whore slut who asked for it. and then they would dig up every photo from her past where she was smiling next to franken, and every quote where she said something positive.

then the internet mob would get it on harassing the hell out of her and she would get a ton of death and rape threats.

like it would be really ugly.

and ofc not a single republican would even question the honorable senator.

So, what does Al Franken do if he does in fact remember the incident differently? People’s memories are notoriously unreliable, details get added in or subtracted as time passes.
I asked a friend of mine who is an outspoken feminist and who also survived a fairly serious sexual assault what Franken should do in that situation. She said that he should say something to the effect of, “I do not recall it, but I have no reason to doubt [victim’s] account.” That’s not far off from what Franken said. I think it’s a mistake for you to assume that his response is some kind of calculating political maneuver.

I'm confused. Are you asking if he should lie?

If he has no reason to doubt Leeann's account then he should resign, and there's no need for an investigation.

You changed it in a kind of important way. If he said that, it's a better apology, sure. It's like a minor syntaxual change with critical implications. I'm not critiquing the apology in isolation but in light of his total conduct. Which seems to be:

I did wrong
I'm terrible sorry
Investigate
Implicit, unspoken: I'm not resigning

In total, that's bull****.

He didn't say he didn't recall the rehearsal bit. He said he doesn't remember it the way she does. In other words he is setting up a he said she said for that part of it. He did rightly apologize for the sexual harassment that he could not in any way deny, so that's something I guess.

ETA. And rather than enlighten us as to what he remembered he wants an investigation? Just spit it the **** out already.

I dig that, I'm just saying if somebody says they feel like they're taking crazy pills I dig that too. There's a lot of room for crazy-pill-taking even if you're not abandoning your principles, which is why I guess I was right earlier when I said a good part of my bull**** could be a separate topic.

As far as head-spinning goes, here's the thing: I was surprised and somewhat comforted by it, the Hanittys and twitter CHUDs of the world being so shameless and hypocritical in regards to Franken, because it meant that bull**** wasn't fully normalized. It's a rare feeling.

As I make the jaunt away from a lot of libertarianism, my giant take away from this episode is that popular media figures whose main product is gaslighting America and perpetuating deplorableness need to be censored due to their unforeseen abilities to turn even reasonable people into sputtering idiots.

I kid, but man. Sean Hannity has a lot more sway over liberals than the popular consensus realizes. The worst explanation is that punditry is irrelevant and American just has endemic patriarchy it can't rid itself of. The most hopeful explanation is that right wing TV infotainers have gaslit America into head-spinning collective insanity that as a byproduct perpetuates patriarchal norms and we can make progress if we can just be rid of them somehow.

Eh, Hannity is just an avatar for generalized deplorableness. I'm still not even sure what a Keurig is. I forgive you calling me a sputtering idiot though, we all have our galaxy brain moments (unless you're doing a King's You thing here).

My thought process earlier was, y'know maybe the deploraverse WON'T want to fire Franken into the sun, or maybe they'll want to strap Moore with him... This could be interesting... Then I thought, lol, you naive fool, of course they'll have the most obliviously hypocritical takes, wtf is wrong with you... But THEN I thought, weird, I haven't had a moment of bright-eyed child-like naivete in awhile.

Point being Hannity et deplorable al don't really have any sway over me, but, I think that's a bad thing. I should let Lucy snatch away the football once in awhile to build character..

I wasn't calling you a sputtering idiot, it was more to simplicius who seems otherwise usually reasonably but seems off the rails here. I chalk it up to the fact that Hannity et al are capable of turning good people into fits of madness.

Does it matter that Tweeden doesn't seem to want for Franken to resign? Seems like it does. If she doesn't think his behavior is serious enough to warrant him leaving office, why should anyone else?

I'll admit to a non-zero, non-trivial amount of sputtering. That's the life I chose when drooping a take and working it out on paper afterwards.