tumblr.com!

I bet it's a reddit!

But getting between a 28 year old and his 12 year old girlfriend, that's different, right?

It's astounding how you people(ACists) set up these softballs. It's like constant first level thinking, bad=bad, good=good, I don't like this, I don't like that. You're about to sputter that you don't support pedophilia neither, like I'm personally accusing you. And so because you don't support it, IT CAN'T BE ALLOWED. IT JUST CAN'T. Because that's all the depth you're willing to apply.

Give the rest of the world some ****ing credit.

You have any support or examples for the bolded statements? It's a common enough complaint amongst the white Christian nationalists that inform your political worldview, I know, but actual examples of the ACLU doing wrong are thin on the ground.

Chain emails do not count.

P.S. The reason you are told the ACLU is a hypocritical and bad organization is because they fight against school prayer.

I'm not the one pretending things are simpler than they really are. You are doing that. It's fine to talk about 'taking subtleties into account', it's another thing altogether to devise a workable method of doing so. These abstracted general statements aren't advancing the discussion.

A lot of places have 'Romeo and Juliet' laws that go some way to addressing this issue. I'm in favour of them insofar as I've not heard anything that would incline me to oppose them. I'm also weighing 'exploited children' more heavily in the balance than 'lovesick teenagers'. Far more heavily.

It's political correctness gone mad, Stu.

Overcriminalization is a legitimate issue, of course, especially in the context of a strict liability victimless crime that people can unwittingly commit. But man, the way to make that case to adults is with cites to cases and actual statistics, not a cartoon.

Can't find that particular case at the moment, but here's a link summarizing many similar cases of teenage relationships being criminally prosecuted.

Now, you might say "but she was only 14!". However, keep in mind that this is something that happens incredibly frequently. Most of my female classmates had had a boyfriend of 17-19 years of age when we were at, say, 9th grade. These things happen in every single school. Teenagers have relationships even though there is a 2-3 up to 5 year gap in their age. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

In my undergraduate years in psychology we kept having these discussions during classes on developmental psychology how the legal age of consent is so inappropriate for most of the things it restricts, especially when it comes to romantic relationships. It is a well-known observation that girls enter puberty earlier than boys and they generally mature quite faster (the gap doesn't fully close until the early 20s) and hence young teenage girls dating guys who are a few years older than them is the most natural thing in the world with no harm to anybody.

I dunno man, I can see that tumblr being cited in courts of law in the not-too-distant future.

I may have been a bit hasty on the "la6ki is not a pedo" benefit of the doubt.

18/14 is considerably different from 18/17. And its frequency isn't really relevant. Shoplifting happens all the time, still illegal.

And what you're talking about may or may not be 'natural'. That has exactly nothing to do with whether it's harmful, socially desirable or morally defensible.

5 years? So a 17 year old dating a 12 old?

I don't know what to argue. It's all there in that article. The guy deserves 15 years for being a sexual predator. 19 y/o with a 15 y/o is bad in an of itself. Combine that with a court order to stop makes it justifiably criminal.

I was going to respond to your other posts but then I saw this, so I'm gonna sit out. After our mini-conversations on sources and presentation I thought you were better than this. I mean, I *specifically* asked you to try to get over the superficial features of the link and try to get something out of the content but you decide to have a little fun at my expense.

Fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but I'm not in the mood for this.

I just explained that girls generally mature (not only physically, but mentally too) much earlier than boys and a 19-15 relationship is not harmful to either party. If you think that when two teenagers love each other one should be sent to prison because The Law says so (and you think he is a sexual predator) I guess there isn't much else to be said, indeed.

The ACLU advocates on behalf of people like Genarlow Wilson. Obvious reaction is to complain about both the ACLU and unfair age of consent laws.

You should try and get over the superficial features of my mocking your use of cartoon strips in discussion. And before you hammer that last nail into your cross there, I did read the thing. It's just not terribly impressive, aside from being a cartoon strip. Some laws are dumb, this is news?

Take your ball and go home if you don't want to play, fine. I'm sure you could have totally crushed me if you felt like it, right? But I was just too big of a meanie for you to lower yourself to it.

You said it. That's different from 'explaining' it (ie, justifying the claim as opposed to simply making it).

I love how the buying and selling of small children turns into an edge case argument about 19/15 year old sex. Just because there may be some legitimate debate about how much trouble a 19-year-old should be in for having sex with a 15-year-old - does not mean that what logically follows is a thriving free market in children. Just no.

Rothbard was dead wrong on this and la6 was right to instantly condemn the idea - until he learned the source and got all caught up in nuance.

I can't really agree with you here, unless there were special circumstances like the girl has Down's Syndrome or something. There's pretty clear sexual manipulation in play, and the guy deserves a swift KITN and the girl needs to be sat down to have a nice long chat about how the real world works, but I think labeling the guy a "sexual predator" may be a bit overkill.

What suzzer said is correct though. The only two choices are not "Lock up every 19 year old who ****s a 15 year old for life and label them a predator" and "Allow DBJ to create buyababy.com and make millions."

There's a happy medium in there somewhere.

I've said this to LirvA before la6ki, one of the ACist's many problems, but certainly one of the most annoying, is the tendency to find small fault with a law or process and, rather than attempting to come up with a solution to fix the problem, the "solution" becomes to nuke the law.

No one takes that mentality seriously.

Oh, I don't think that is true at all. Or at least to the extent you think it is true. You did not explain it, you asserted it and made an appeal to authority. 15/14 year olds of any gender do not really understand the consequences of sex. This is a rather easy case.

Did you read the article? He was told by the court after getting in trouble for having a relationship with her when the were 18/14 to stay away. Her father wanted him to stay away. After he got out of jail for the first time he waited a couple of months then they started meeting secretly again. He was so in love with a 15 year old girl that he risked jail time to be with her instead of moving on or waiting 3 years. I think it's reasonable to conclude that this guy just has a problem with being really attracted to under age women.

You should remember being that age dude.

I'd imagine it's a lot more of the "only fish in the sea" mentality than than a weird attraction to underaged girls.

Plus think back to HS. The alpha guys dated their own class, the rest dated underclassmen. The chances this guy was really experienced with women was slim to none.

It's not like he did not have warnings. A year in prison for the 18/14 is a bit too much, but the article does not go into a ton of detail on that. Still pretty gross. Seniors dating freshmen is weird. The inability to stop himself from breaking a court order to stay away is extremely problematic.

Think it is unfair to say he was attracted to underage women. We have only one case of him dating an underage woman. He could just really have loved that female, or been attracted to her, and not other underage girls. I think it is fair that parents want to keep their daughters safe. But it is a grey area in law where I don't think it is fair to just label the guy a pedobear.

On its face, I'd agree. But it's not like you can say at that point he was just unaware of the consequences. He'd done a year in prison, you know? You'd think that would sink in. It's not exactly a smoking gun, but it should move the probability that the guy has a problem in that regard up a few notches.

Yea, and remember, I'm just saying I have issues with labeling him a "sexual predator".

I certainly agree with your assessment on the violation of the court order, and I'm not even advocating for ending the Stat Rape laws as a thing.