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Old 02-22-2017, 10:22 AM   #176
Mr.mmmKay
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Originally Posted by BrettFavre View Post

Not sure how we don't see at least one country withdraw from the EU in the next few years.
My money's on the UK
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:56 AM   #177
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Could anyone outline why Le Pen is so awful? I will vote for our right wing party, the Sweden Democrats in our upcoming election, nothing about them is extreme or fascist, how do they differ to Le Pen?

Trump is too extreme for our right wing party, the party leader won't defend him.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:29 AM   #178
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Could anyone outline why Le Pen is so awful? I will vote for our right wing party, the Sweden Democrats in our upcoming election, nothing about them is extreme or fascist, how do they differ to Le Pen?

Trump is too extreme for our right wing party, the party leader won't defend him.
The Swedish Democrats have a party platform obsessed with race. That's what a racist is. Any one supporting them is a racist.

If you mean is Marine Le Pen saying she is going to carry out a holocaust, no, she isn't. Yet. Nor did most perpetrators of genocide...at first. They went on about immigration and demonized people of foreign ethnicity in a variety of ways just like you and your swedish fascist scum do. They do that until they win power and dismantle the state till so their are no barriers to ethnic cleansing.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:34 AM   #179
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

If you need to ask she's probably ok to you.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:36 AM   #180
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Bayrou about to announce that he is going to run as a chaotic neutral?

Edit: nope, he wants an alliance with Macron!
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:40 AM   #181
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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If you need to ask she's probably ok to you.
She is ok to a lot of French people too, do they all support extremism and fascism? Like does she support any policies which are clearly not acceptable?
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:51 AM   #182
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Le Pen's a fairly common place contemporary hard right racist. Here's a few badly-translated-by-me pledges from her platform
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  • Defend National Identity and the values and traditions of French civilisation. Write into the constitution the defence and promotion of our historical and cultural heritage.
  • Establish French citizenship as a privilege for all French people by putting 'national priority' into the constitution
  • Permanently install the French flag in all public buildings and remove all european flags
  • Add into the constitution that "The Republic recognises no communities"
  • Strengthen the unity of the Nation by the promotion of the French story and the refusal of state apologies which divide us.
  • Introduce 'Republican Assimilation', a more demanding principal than 'Integration'
France is already in mild social turmoil because it finds it very difficult to deal with, at an institutional / political level, the fact that not everyone is exactly the same French stereotype - white, rural, thinks mainstream old-person French stuff is brilliant. Le Pen is the fingers-in-the ear answer to that problem, who'll be very aggressive in going as far as she can to make reality like that, all the while pretending it actually already is to spare the squeamish.

She'll back these idiot cultural views with expansion and further arming of the police, significantly increased defence spending, pulling out of the EU and NATO and doubling down on the French protectionist, social-security driven economy.

If you're a typical European hard right voter I doubt you've much of a problem with her.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:52 AM   #183
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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She is ok to a lot of French people too, do they all support extremism and fascism? Like does she support any policies which are clearly not acceptable?
She supports Donald Trump, so it would depend on whether you think any of his policies are unacceptable
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:11 PM   #184
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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She is ok to a lot of French people too, do they all support extremism and fascism? Like does she support any policies which are clearly not acceptable?
Indeed, way too many French people think she is ok and if I'm going to spend time and energy trying to change someone's mind about her my priority is them, not you. I'm not really interested in arguing to a Swedish nationalist on the internet that French nationalism is bad. You already know what a far right populist party is and you decided you loved it.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:12 PM   #185
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

She sounds like Trump in female form.

Another potential Brexit moment in the developed world.

Guess the common enemy in France is brown people just like America, right?
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:18 PM   #186
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Thanks pyatnitski, sounds like she has taken nationalism a step further than our RW party.

Quote:
Defend National Identity and the values and traditions of French civilisation. Write into the constitution the defence and promotion of our historical and cultural heritage.
Such a nationalistic stance sounds like bog standard mainstream US politics, think constitution.

Quote:
Permanently install the French flag in all public buildings and remove all european flags
Is this just anti EU rhetoric?

Quote:
Add into the constitution that "The Republic recognises no communities"
I don't understand this.

Quote:
Strengthen the unity of the Nation by the promotion of the French story and the refusal of state apologies which divide us.
What is meant by state apologies which divide us?

Quote:
Introduce 'Republican Assimilation', a more demanding principal than 'Integration'
Different approach to integrate immigrants?
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:25 PM   #187
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Originally Posted by Kukraprout View Post
Indeed, way too many French people think she is ok and if I'm going to spend time and energy trying to change someone's mind about her my priority is them, not you. I'm not really interested in arguing to a Swedish nationalist on the internet that French nationalism is bad. You already know what a far right populist party is and you decided you loved it.
I hold many leftist liberal views, I will be voting for SD as a protest vote against the unsustainable extreme immigration policy we have as a nation, they are the only alternative to establishment policies. I never voted for a right wing party before, this will be the first time. I am not alone reacting like this.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:27 PM   #188
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Le Pen also wants to ban all religious clothing. Therefore she opposes the freedom to wear whatever you want.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...f851be8c3ba0ac
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:39 PM   #189
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Le Pen also wants to ban all religious clothing. Therefore she opposes the freedom to wear whatever you want.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...f851be8c3ba0ac
Your link is behind a paywall.

What other religious clothing does she want to ban other than the burka, which is already banned in public place?
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:42 PM   #190
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Afraid I can't really explain the detail of her policies. To me it's clear, and that's why I chose the ones I did, that they are racist dog whistles more than actual policies.

Some clarification, though:

"The republic recognises no communities" - France has a commitment to 'laicité' (best translation is secularism, but it just doesn't have the same connotations) in its public institutions. The idea is that everyone should be treated equally, and being of this or that religion or whatever doesn't help you or change things. Obviously that's a lovely principle, but there's all sorts of devils in the details - the 'burkini' furore being a recent one. I interpret this to be a statement of intent to enforce hardline 'laicité', which, in today's France involves things like forcing muslim children to eat pork as part of their school dinner.

The French about the apologies is "le refus des repentances d’État qui divisent". I confess I'm not certain about the translation, I took it to mean things like the state apologising for colonial stuff, but I realise that that's possibly because I'm British and we have, amazingly, occasionally done that sort of thing. I honestly don't know if France has, though I'd guess they have. There was recently a mild controversy over Macron apologising for stuff France did in Algeria.

Yes, I take her to be talking about "Republican Assimilation" as a new standard for potential new French people.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:45 PM   #191
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Originally Posted by Marn View Post
Your link is behind a paywall.

What other religious clothing does she want to ban other than the burka, which is already banned in public place?
The following link might work better

http://www.timesofisrael.com/le-pen-...-never-racism/

She wants to ban all types of religious clothing, including what Jews wear (Kippa)
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:59 PM   #192
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marn View Post
I hold many leftist liberal views, I will be voting for SD as a protest vote against the unsustainable extreme immigration policy we have as a nation, they are the only alternative to establishment policies. I never voted for a right wing party before, this will be the first time. I am not alone reacting like this.
Dude she has leftist views too! Her platform is a mix of Nationalism and Socialism that you will absolutely love! And she's obsessed with immigrants just like you are!

She should be your new hero imo! It's really incredible that you, supporter of a nationalist party with an interest in international politics, look like you barely know of her and need to ask so many questions. Really. Incredible.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:11 PM   #193
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

pyatnitski, thanks for your effort, I think what you are saying is a bit more clear now.

Kukrapout, SD is closer to the right than left(they vote more often with the right) when it comes to economic policies, military spending etc. I didn't know Le Pen was an anti immigrant leftist party.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:18 PM   #194
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Originally Posted by Mr.mmmKay View Post
The following link might work better

http://www.timesofisrael.com/le-pen-...-never-racism/

She wants to ban all types of religious clothing, including what Jews wear (Kippa)
That seems insane, whatever arguments they had for the burka ban seem insane as a justification for a kippa ban. Where is the gender oppression or difficulty to identify yourself for banks or authorities?
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:49 PM   #195
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Originally Posted by Kukraprout View Post
Dude she has leftist views too! Her platform is a mix of Nationalism and Socialism that you will absolutely love! And she's obsessed with immigrants just like you are!
ICWUDT
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:25 PM   #196
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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Originally Posted by Marn View Post
I hold many leftist liberal views, I will be voting for SD as a protest vote against the unsustainable extreme immigration policy we have as a nation, they are the only alternative to establishment policies. I never voted for a right wing party before, this will be the first time. I am not alone reacting like this.
You are a bigot trying to pretend your bigotry is moderate and painting the centre is extreme. That's what all bigots do.

At least grow a pair of testicles and state what you actually think, the bull**** you people come out with is insufferable.
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:32 PM   #197
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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That seems insane, whatever arguments they had for the burka ban seem insane as a justification for a kippa ban. Where is the gender oppression or difficulty to identify yourself for banks or authorities?
It's true that the prohibitions on religious clothing in France have had specific justifications in law. For example with the burqua in public it was about facial identification. With the burquini on beaches it was about 'public order'. No veils allowed in schools upholds the secularity of education. Veils worn by those in government jobs threatens the neutrality of the state.

However it's clear that the intent behind them all is to humiliate and control muslims, and it's the case that the common acceptable rhetoric is the appeal to laicité. Le Pen is then just following that acceptable rhetoric of institutional secularism where ever it takes her - which is 'logically' to ban all religious clothing. It's just the noises she and others who want to attack Islam currently have to make, that's it. No one here believes she'll ban, in practice, any Christian things. What she thinks about Jewish people I don't know, though historically the right in France was virulently anti-semitic.
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:48 PM   #198
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

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You are a bigot trying to pretend your bigotry is moderate and painting the centre is extreme. That's what all bigots do.

At least grow a pair of testicles and state what you actually think, the bull**** you people come out with is insufferable.
We have an extreme amount of asylum immigration per capita compared to other EU countries, that is a fact.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...-seekers-syria

That is why I am calling our policies extreme.
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:56 PM   #199
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

Emmanuel Macron and François Bayrou form alliance:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ce-with-macron

Bayrou was polling around 5-6%, this should pull Macron comfortably ahead of Fillon?
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:27 PM   #200
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Re: Le Pen France elections your thoughts

I don't think people listen a lot to what a spineless centrist says. They been swinging between left and right for ever. I'm still confident for Macron btw. Other polls still have Macron ahead of Fillon.
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