If you're being a douche about it and trying to make a stupid 2nd amendment point that the responding officer probably agrees with you about, then yes, it's the exact same thing.

Unfortunately if you look at law enforcement's history in the US, they have a history of this kind of attitude and behavior. Not sure why but it is definitely prevalent, and it really comes into focus when you look at DblBarrel's lt calling people out on his PA for the love of cake and mocking them. Not even having the human decency to address them face to face, but expecting their respect and obedience. And law enforcement wonders why we don't respect them?

Educate yourself, know your rights, and don't get screwed by their bully tactics. We have to spread the word.

So let me just get this straight. If you're carrying a gun around legally, following the very LETTER of the law, but you have an anti-law enforcement attitude, it's equivalent to someone dressing up as an SS soldier and causing a public disturbance?

You do realize you are saying that he should be punished for simply following the laws, the laws that he probably went to extra trouble to learn and understand. You do realize that, please just acknowledge that you realize that, because you make my head hurt more and more with each successive post you make.

A big part of the current discussion is about people openly carrying just to make a point about their right to openly carry.

If you OC, cool with me. But, you are going to attract some attention from time to time. Deal with that without being a douche. Like I said above, almost all cops support your right to do so. Just don't be an ******* if they want to ask you a few questions because some granny called 911. It's not an infringement of your rights, it's just them doing their job.

OCists are going to continue to have the cops called on them forever or until a large majority of people OC which isn't going to happen.

Also I can't find it but I have seen many times a billboard which says "SEE A GUN? REPORT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's out there, I'm sure someone else can confirm.

Maybe if you guys educated people more on their rights and the fact that 911 is for emergencies only, and spent less money scaring the bejeezus out of people with ads like these, there would be a slightly different response.

However we know from videos like this one the real reason cops, at least in certain departments, are on heavy lookout for guns: get a free day off, on the taxpayer! Nice policy, except the fact that it encourages corruption and bad tactics out the wazoo.

http://www.truthistreason.net/former...s-and-ron-paul

No.

WTF does what I think of them matter? Never once have I advocated for the outlaw of open carry.

What I have said was they're morons. But they have every right to be morons. This is America. But I'll be damned if you're going to tell me that because of the job that I do that I can't look at a moron and say YOU'RE A MORON

No if they stop you and ask you a few questions that is fine, I support the cops stopping them briefly to check their permit and let them go about their way. If they harass you from their car, mock you through the loudspeaker and make cracks about John Wayne that is harassment, and that is illegal regardless if you are of the special class of law enforcement officer or not.

Also we keep coming to this catch-22 where simply exercising one's rights makes one a "douchebag", "activist", "*******," and then you want to punish us for being a "douchebag", "activist," or "*******." I hope one day you will realize this circular logic, it's really as plain as day if you take a step back.

Actually, I will tell you that. I'm a technician, part of my job falls under professionalism. Sometimes that means cleaning **** off the floor from my work area when I'm done. I may not like it, I may think it's below me, but it's still my ****ing job and I can't simply ignore it.

Treating citizens with professionalism is, likewise, an important part of your job. Mocking them from a loudspeaker and harassing them with your John Wayne cracks is about the farthest thing from professionalism, short of straight up jackbooting them. How about politely telling them why they should change their ways, or if you already know they are an *******, simply check their permits and let them go. You're not going to change their attitudes and save the world by being INCREDIBLY HOSTILE AND AGGRESSIVE towards them.

But then, 'good policework' isn't really the reason you and your lt started this behavior at all, is it. What's the real reason? I can tell you are far too intelligent to think it's effective policework.

It depends on what "effective" means to you. You're right, with these individuals, polite explaination of the problems, even tactical discussions have failed.

At that point it's a 3 sided approach.

1) Add some humor to the job

2) Get them to move on

3)Mild possibility we may annoy them into concealed carry.

Move on from what? The engagement you instigated? Why don't you move on?

Because I was called there because they were there.

You've really got a complete lack of realism in your catch-22 comments. If you're going to walk exactly 1004ft away from a public high school at 3:30pm, with parents and frightened teenagers and school bus drivers driving by, you can't really believe the 911 callers and the cops are the ones out of touch with reality.

Also, since I've never been in the OC movement, do OCers have a problem with cars? Why are y'all always walking down the road?

And on the subject of trying to be nice, why is it this conversation is so offensive to OCers?

Me: So where ya headed?
OC: Why, what business is that of yours?
Me: Hey, don't get offended, Its hot/cold out here, thought maybe you needed a ride to wherever you were going?
OC: ZOMGGG DON'T TREAD ON MEEZZZZ

Yeah, I understand that. So why should they move on? After verifying their legal right to carry said weapon, why don't you just move on and try to find some real crimes to stop?

I'm not a part of the OC movement. I've never even owned a gun. Why don't you simply ask to see their permit, though, instead of using this quite obvious ruse to gain intel on them. That **** pisses me off too, you should know that they know the law and therefore they know they don't have to tell you where they're going, but you still try to bully them into giving up their rights. Use a bit of your poker skills (second level thinking) and you won't find yourself backed into a tactical dead end here.

Especially someone who intends to commit a crime is not giving up intel here.

"Uh, I was headed to the liquor store, to uh, rob it, oh shoot you caught me, dagnabbit"

wait, wtf is an OCer?


An Occupier, or Open Carrier?

Open Carrier, as pertains to this thread.

I'm not backed into a tactical dead end. I gave people walking down the road rides all the time, but it's commonplace to ask where they're headed first. I'm in GA. If the say "San Francisco" they're SOL. If they are walking to the grocery store, I can assist. Not only that, but if you observe, I've resolved two issues at once. I've given a walker a ride, and I've stopped the 911 calls, and I've done both at once, with one action.

A 3rd benefit is that I've created a good experience with a LEO in the mind of an OCer, which will come back to assist me later.


I get what you're saying about the "where ya headed" deal, and cops ask it for a lot of different reasons.

In that very specific situation, I'm simply trolling him, because he and I both know the same thing; he's not "going" anywhere. He's walking around in ****ing circles near a school zone, within a few feet of where he'd be breaking GA state law, waiting on the cops to get called.

He knows it, I know it, **** I'm pretty sure he knows I know it!

I thought you were talking about the occupiers imo.



I don't have any problem with a group of open carry activists getting together to demonstrate for their rights.

I do have a problem with cops thinking they can go up to them and harass them or check them out with background checks and **** just because they have a shiny badge and some stamped paper from the state government, but yet the demonstrators couldn't do the same to the police.

Sorry, I hadn't taken any drugs.


I'm good now though.

Well I give you credit for this, this is pretty solid if you're being genuine. I didn't think it was possible you were actually offering him a ride, but I stand corrected.

See this is that game theory situation, you're not going to win on ruses or trolling. I don't see what you can do besides ask the man for his paperwork and leave him alone. Like you said, he's not breaking the law. Giving him a hard time and making a big deal about it is basically exactly what he wants, as far as I can tell.

I still stand by my statement that you should not harass this guy, or yell at him from the loudspeaker, in an attempt to troll him into leaving the situation. That's totally unprofessional, doesn't acting in that way embarrass you?

Ask him for his OC permit and his ID, run his ID if you so desire, and then you should move along. Let him exercise his right to be a moron in public and don't stoop to being a moron back.

Damn I could use some myself, the topics in this forum can be pretty tilting and migraine-inducing imo.

No one is saying you can't call someone a moron, I'm saying you can't call someone a moron (or engage in any of the childish behavior quoted above) and still claim the mantle of professionalism.
Actually, no. A wrongful arrest would be mis-enforcement (to coin a word), police misconduct and a breach of the law. It's fair to say that any actions you take in your official capacity that have the force of law should be considered "law enforcement". If you order someone away from an accident scene or detain someone who has already asked if they are free to leave, you have just enforced the particular law that authorizes you to do those things. It's not just arrests and citations.

Now you are just being disingenuous. Yelling "hilarious **** about gun laws" is now "dry reading the gun laws". Either way, if he is acting in a law enforcement capacity the norms of decorum and professionalism should apply.

Professionalism can mean many different things. In that job, sometimes professionalism is shooting people. Here we have a situation where all parties involved know the outcome beforehand, so why not have a little fun?

I don't wanna be there, they don't want me there, I don't want them there, they're not leaving, neither am I. May as well make it as fun as possible for everyone involved.

You are correct. Why the hell do you think you don't just go up to them and tell them to GTFO. When the situations occur where I'm legally able to, obviously that's the most efficient solution. That rarely happens.


Right, so he should just walk up to Bob the OC whacko and have the same conversation from two days ago. Got ya. I don't think that you've quite grasped this for what it is, which is more of a "Hai guys, it's me again, let's switch lines this time" lol between them than outright abuse or harassment.

Sorry but you're not getting off this easy. He is the alleged nutjob protestor, you are the professional defender of the realm. You have a responsibility to professionalism in this situation, he only has a responsibility to follow the law. You should hold yourself to a much higher standard than this.

I believe you're being hypocritical here, and I believe I can prove it. Let me ask you this; do you always engage in the same level of professionalism with people you work with every day that you do when you're dealing with a new client?

It's important to remember, these stories are discussing people we dealt with nearly daily. These stories are not representative of the way we dealt with a brand new OCer we'd never met before. We're discussing 5 or 6 guys I dealt with MINIMUM once a rotation, sometimes 2 - 3x per rotation. This came after MANY dealings, like to the point where dispatch wasn't even professional anymore, they'd just radio my badge number and when I answered state "You've got a message in the chat log" and I'd pull it up and read "Bob ***** is on Pinemar near the Walmart. 13 calls.. No 14. On foot. Westbound. "