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Old 05-21-2011, 01:32 PM   #26
DblBarrelJ
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by TheQuietAnarchist View Post
Obviously you are aware of this, but people locked in prison have their personal privacy invaded more or less at the whims of guards, who often need to search for drugs / weapons, including anal cavity searches. It's really not hard at all to imagine that sometimes guards are less than sensitive to the dignity of the people they are searching, and a lot of what they do might be categorized as sexual assault. There can be taunting, insults, denigrations, being a little rough, etc.
I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone at a DOC other than a medical staff member being allowed to perform an anal cavity search, and prior to that search being performed, the Warden had to approve it. In my state, we have a chair, we call it the Hot Seat, which is like an x-ray chair. The only way a Warden in this state is going to approve a search is with an x-ray of foreign objects in the individuals rectum. Granted I haven't worked for every DOC, but I still find it difficult to believe after working in several prisons that a guard can, without cause, just go "I want to check your anus" and the inmate is forced to comply.

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You might not think of any of this as sexual assault. Perhaps you believe that most, if not all, of the people in prison have done something that makes them deserve to be violated in this manner on a repeated basis. But that's why it is important to get the viewpoint of the people to who this is being done, to understand that they are still human ****ing beings and that this is their experience being in prison.
So rather than using a reasonable man standard, we just let everyone decide what sexual assault is to them and hold everyone else to that standard? What if I decide that you looking at me is "Sexual Assault"? Are you ready to go to jail for sexually assaulting me in the grocery store? The reasonable man standard is used to stop people with unreasonable views from being able to control society. It's the same as using force. Just because you felt threatened because I stare at you doesn't give you the right to shoot me. You'll still get convicted. Same here. If these inmates feel that trained medical staff performing anal cavity searches after a non invasive x-ray procedure shows contraband = sexual assault, I disagree. The general public disagrees. A "Reasonable Man" disagrees. Therefore the claims are absurd.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:55 AM   #27
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Re: Law and Order 2

guh, this thread sucks compared to the old police thread.

Anyone have any updates on the Maryland Student Beating?

Google can't find anything.

Followup in the Critical mass cyclist attacked by a cop. The cop was convicted (yay!), not for the attack but for filing a false instument (they were trying to charge the victim with attacking the cop). His sentence: nothing.

More cameras is a good thing. We should put cameras on the cops. Only the ones doing things they shouldn't would have something to hide.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:35 AM   #28
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Re: Law and Order 2

I'm way too sympathetic to punching a critical mass cyclist, or any biker on a major road for that matter.
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:27 AM   #29
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by JayTeeMe View Post
More cameras is a good thing. We should put cameras on the cops. Only the ones doing things they shouldn't would have something to hide.
Cop helmet cams, imo.
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:38 AM   #30
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by JayTeeMe View Post
guh, this thread sucks compared to the old police thread.

Anyone have any updates on the Maryland Student Beating?

Google can't find anything.
Seems really weird there's literally no hits on google beyond April 2010. How has nothing been written about this since then?
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:43 PM   #31
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by JayTeeMe View Post
Followup in the Critical mass cyclist attacked by a cop. The cop was convicted (yay!), not for the attack but for filing a false instument (they were trying to charge the victim with attacking the cop). His sentence: nothing.

More cameras is a good thing. We should put cameras on the cops. Only the ones doing things they shouldn't would have something to hide.
Won't matter if we put cameras all over the place. Guy who assaulted the biker gets absolutely nothing despite being on film.

It'll be sort of like statements to the police, they will always be used to portray the civilian in the worst possible light, and will very rarely be used to exonerate anyone.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:53 AM   #32
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Re: Law and Order 2

Well, the biker guy did get 65k from the city and he did get the charges against him dropped. Without the camera he's convicted of assaulting a police officer.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:21 AM   #33
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Re: Law and Order 2

I suppose I was thinking more about cop-carried cameras, like their cruiser dash-cams or those operated by local law enforcement personnel. Those have a nasty tendency to malfunction at opportune times or disappear.

If you're talking about just lots of citizens putting up their own cameras and filming what they can, then I agree that some good may come of it (although it's still an uphill battle, as evidenced by the lack of criminal penalties for the officer who assaulted the bike rider).
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:25 AM   #34
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Re: Law and Order 2

DBJ, how would you feel about having a camera in your uniform that recorded everything you do all day?

Could save your ass in a he said/she said situation no?

*Not that I think DBJ's opinion would be universal as he's far better than the average cop and infinitely better than a dirty cop
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:41 AM   #35
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Re: Law and Order 2

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*Not that I think DBJ's opinion would be universal as he's far better than the average cop and infinitely better than a dirty cop
This. If every cop acted like DBJ portrays himself here, and every prosecutor acted completely opposed to Jman's "Relax, it'll get pled down, baby" motto, there would be nothing to go in these types of threads.

Which would be ideal.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:27 AM   #36
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Re: Law and Order 2

They make the clip on chest cameras. The problem with them is that they're going to come off/break/get covered in the situations you really need them most, such as fights, foot pursuits etc.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:07 AM   #37
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Re: Law and Order 2

I dunno maybe make the clip stronger?
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:54 AM   #38
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Re: Law and Order 2

Meh, I'm not much into the manufacturing business. You do it.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:29 PM   #39
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Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
They make the clip on chest cameras. The problem with them is that they're going to come off/break/get covered in the situations you really need them most, such as fights, foot pursuits etc.
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I dunno maybe make the clip stronger?
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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
Meh, I'm not much into the manufacturing business. You do it.
This is a market problem. There is no incentive to make the clip stronger because the user of the clip (the police) don't want a stronger clip. If they wanted a stronger clip, it would be made.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:40 PM   #40
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Re: Law and Order 2

We can go further and apply revealed preferences theory to deduce that the police don't want to be subject to scrutiny
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:35 PM   #41
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Re: Law and Order 2

Of course cops don't want to be constantly under surveillance. Would any of you want a camera trained on your desk all day?

The prob isn't that cops are per se bad, it's that there are no market forces available to check bad police behavior. If my barber gives me a bad haircut I find a new barber. If my cop sucks...well I'm more or less stuck with him.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:36 PM   #42
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Re: Law and Order 2

Somebody should invent a camera that automatically turns on when the cop draws his gun/handcuffs/baton/etc.
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:24 PM   #43
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by RR View Post
This is a market problem. There is no incentive to make the clip stronger because the user of the clip (the police) don't want a stronger clip. If they wanted a stronger clip, it would be made.
You truly feel that in this specific situation the user of the clip is the front line officer?

In other words, if you produced this product, your marketing campaign would be aimed at front line law enforcement?

I know where it would most likely be aimed, and I doubt it would be aimed at the street officer, in the way Blackhawk and Galco market to street cops.
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:56 PM   #44
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Re: Law and Order 2

Dbl, if I'm understanding you right (and perhaps I'm not, it sounds like you need to distinguish between the user of a product and the beneficiary. The public would be the beneficiary, but the cops would be the ones paying for the clips and it's the cops you have to get to sign off on them.
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:43 PM   #45
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
You truly feel that in this specific situation the user of the clip is the front line officer?

In other words, if you produced this product, your marketing campaign would be aimed at front line law enforcement?

I know where it would most likely be aimed, and I doubt it would be aimed at the street officer, in the way Blackhawk and Galco market to street cops.
In this example I am not differentiating between officers on the street and the management of the police. If we were doing that, we would have to include the influence of the union and any politics they choose to play with it. So yes, we are back to this being something that the officers that have nothing to hide would be for and the ones that don't want to be recorded would be against. I am sure form your posting that you are an officer that would welcome being recorded. I think there is either a significant minority or an majority (I don't know which, there isn't much difference between 45% and 55%) that would not want the inconvenience of always being recorded.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:55 AM   #46
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Re: Law and Order 2

Sorta off topic but I'm going to pretend this is the old police thread. Last night had a dozen police come and question/search/assault me and a friend charging us under a misuse of drug act accusing us of supplying cannabis (which we didn't do) got searched and treated like crap, pretty much considered guilty as soon as they rush in. Seems so ridic. However I live in New Zealand not America so doubt this post really has relevance to anything.
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:50 PM   #47
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Re: Law and Order 2

Sorta OT but along the lines of police, and rape

Two New York City Police Officers Acquitted of Rape
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:34 PM   #48
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by 7000 View Post
Sorta off topic but I'm going to pretend this is the old police thread. Last night had a dozen police come and question/search/assault me and a friend charging us under a misuse of drug act accusing us of supplying cannabis (which we didn't do) got searched and treated like crap, pretty much considered guilty as soon as they rush in. Seems so ridic. However I live in New Zealand not America so doubt this post really has relevance to anything.
How did this happen, did they just show up at your house? I'm in NZ so just curious of what to look out for.
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Old 05-27-2011, 02:43 AM   #49
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Re: Law and Order 2

I guess these go here now:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-attack.html

Cliffs:
15 Yr old girl, apparently drunk, fighting with mother at school.
Gets away from mother
Police arrive
Girl is walking away from police
Cop runs her down and SMASHES her the **** into the wall. (around the 1:55 mark on the youtube video, at the beginning of the news report video)

Obviously, this girl was no upstanding citizen, but I believe the Ray Lewis like tackle there is perhaps a tad excessive.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:48 AM   #50
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Re: Law and Order 2

Radley Balko now at The Huffington Post on the case where Arizona cops fired a bunch of rounds and killed a Marine while serving a warrant:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_867020.html

cliffs: Lots of the official story has changed. Coverup in progress. Jose Guerena didn't fire first (official claim) because the safety was still on his weapon. No evidence of wrongdoing by Geurena, or reason for the warrant. His relative died in a home invasion.

Video of the raid:



This is the one where they kept the paramedics away from him for more than an hour. Dead men don't testify.
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