Law and Order 2 - Page 180 - Politics and Economics

DA coming strong

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/us/ohi...ent/index.html
"Yes," he said. "I think he was making an excuse for the purposeful killing"

07-29-2015 , 04:38 PM

#4477

Love Sosa

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2,308

Here's the cleanest version of the video I could find.

Murdered, point blank to the temple. Cops are just excellent at escalating trivial things into life and death situations. Guy doesn't have a front license plate and gets his brains splattered every where, jfc.

07-29-2015 , 04:39 PM

#4478

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Iwatching it like 3 times the guy starts the car. The officer tries to wrestle the guy in the car (why?) then pulls out a gun and shoots him.

The driver was being non-compliant in response to being questioned about his driver's license, and then he started that car...however, a reasonable response by an officer would be to jump back from the car and then radio for assistance, not shoot the driver in the head.

07-29-2015 , 04:46 PM

#4479

PeteMesquite

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 441

non-compliant?? He freakin told the officer he would give him his info so he could look it up. After checking his pockets he even stated that he didnt have it on him. Non compliant?!?

07-29-2015 , 04:55 PM

#4480

Dids

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 60,871

I think "non-compliant" is fair. He was pretty obviously avoiding the "do you have your license on you" question. I don't think "you can just run the name I give you" really is a viable response there.

Of course that doesn't in any way, shape or form excuse the subsequent murder.

07-29-2015 , 04:55 PM

#4481

Louis Cyphre

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Why did he start the car? That's weird.

07-29-2015 , 05:02 PM

#4482

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dids

He said he didn't have it.

07-29-2015 , 05:06 PM

#4483

PeteMesquite

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 441

"Non-compliant" is not fair. He was close to the definition of compliant.
Just because he feended a little surprised that he didn't have it doesn't mean he wasn't compliant. He directly answered the question after he patted his clothes down to see if he had it.

07-29-2015 , 05:12 PM

#4484

ythelongface

adept

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

Why did he start the car? That's weird.

I live here and I believe I saw on the local news that his license was suspended.

Another thing is why are campus police or at least this cop making traffic stops outside of the campus area? Is this common in other cities?

07-29-2015 , 05:17 PM

#4485

Louis Cyphre

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ythelongface

I live here and I believe I saw on the local news that his license was suspended.

That's no really a good reason to flee from the police. I have my doubts that this ends in a murder conviction.

07-29-2015 , 05:17 PM

#4486

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

I believe the policy at this college, and many others, is campus police can go a mile or two off campus so they can bust up parties if they need to.

I think I saw this on O'Reilly

Last edited by ALLTheCookies; 07-29-2015 at 05:25 PM.

07-29-2015 , 05:19 PM

#4487

ligastar

ToP 100 pAsS cAtChErS

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 30,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by ythelongface

I live here and I believe I saw on the local news that his license was suspended.

Another thing is why are campus police or at least this cop making traffic stops outside of the campus area? Is this common in other cities?

UCPD had an agreement with the CPD to augment the CPD by patrolling in areas outside the boundary of the campus (I'm not sure how far those boundaries extended). According to this article, that policy is going away:

http://www.fox19.com/story/29620319/...olved-shooting

I believe that the driver wasn't being fully compliant. That said, the officer had zero reason to resort to lethal force. I feel the officer should be convicted of a felony and serve time for his transgressions.

07-29-2015 , 05:22 PM

#4488

Renton555

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,905

I've been pulled over without my license twice. I received no citation either time, and only one of the times was I forced to step out of the car during the lookup. Both times were in Tennessee and I'm half Indian with dark skin FWIW. Pretty sure with a non-black person, standard procedure is to tsk tsk you for a second then look you up and send you on your way.

07-29-2015 , 05:33 PM

#4489

Renton555

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,905

Is there any (real) directive to shoot a fleeing suspect to isn't known to be armed or have a major outstanding warrant? If there isn't, then I don't see what this officer could possibly hide behind.

07-29-2015 , 05:35 PM

#4490

ythelongface

adept

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,109

He was pulled over in Mount Adams area which is about two miles from campus.

I hope that Joe Deters, the proscecutor can put pressure on the right people to get CPD to take over all patrols in the campus area. I am just thankful at this point that there are no riots like we had in 2001.

07-29-2015 , 05:39 PM

#4491

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

That's no really a good reason to flee from the police. I have my doubts that this ends in a murder conviction.

The cop was in no danger, the reason he started the car isn't really relevant here for whether deadly force was necessary.

07-29-2015 , 05:39 PM

#4492

Louis Cyphre

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton555

Is there any (real) directive to shoot a fleeing suspect to isn't known to be armed or have a major outstanding warrant? If there isn't, then I don't see what this officer could possibly hide behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

The cop was in no danger, the reason he started the car isn't really relevant here for whether deadly force was necessary.

IANAL. Spur of the moment overreaction resulting in a conviction for manslaughter and not murder?

07-29-2015 , 05:44 PM

#4493

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

Right. It's the beginning of a daytime cop chase video show not a murder investigation

07-29-2015 , 05:45 PM

#4494

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton555

Is there any (real) directive to shoot a fleeing suspect to isn't known to be armed or have a major outstanding warrant? If there isn't, then I don't see what this officer could possibly hide behind.

The Supremes say it's bad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

07-29-2015 , 05:46 PM

#4495

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

IANAL. Spur of the moment overreaction resulting in a conviction for manslaughter and not murder?

Murder degrees cover this AFAIK

07-29-2015 , 05:57 PM

#4496

Louis Cyphre

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Murder degrees cover this AFAIK

I see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18 U.S. Code § 1111 - Murder

(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree. Any other murder is murder in the second degree.
(snip)

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://definitions.uslegal.com/m/malice-aforethought/

Malice aforethought is the the deliberate intent to cause death or great bodily harm to another person before a person commits the crime. Malice aforethought is an element that must be proved in the crime of first degree murder. This description of the perpetrator's state of mind basically means that he or she had an intent to inflict injury without legal justification or excuse (legal justification included such defenses as self-defense, while excuse includes mental illness and duress).
Malice aforethought is comprised of any one of the following three elements: (1) an intent to kill; (2) an intent to inflict grievous bodily injury; or (3) an intent to act in a manner that creates a plain and strong likelihood that death or grievous harm will follow. Of these three prongs of malice, the first two prongs require a specific intent on the part of the defendant, measured subjectively, while the third prong only requires a general intent, measured both subjectively and objectively. Accordingly, malice aforethought may exist without an actual intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm, if there is proof of the "third prong" of malice. This simply means that the perpetrator knew of circumstances that a reasonably prudent person would have known created a plain and strong likelihood of death or grievous bodily harm resulting from the perpetrator's act. The law can infer malice from circumstantial evidence, such as from the intentional use of a deadly weapon.

So murder in the second degree?

07-29-2015 , 06:06 PM

#4497

PeteMesquite

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 441

It also needs to be noted that the guy never started fleeing. I watched the video 5x and it is very clear that the car never started moving until after the guys brains were spread across his interior. Bodies have a tendency to become dead weight on things like gas peddles when that happens.

07-29-2015 , 06:10 PM

#4498

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

IANAL. Spur of the moment overreaction resulting in a conviction for manslaughter and not murder?

He was charged with both btw.

07-29-2015 , 06:19 PM

#4499

Renton555

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,905

Meh he started the car. Pretty sure bolting was his intention. Not that it's relevant to the officer's culpability for the murder.

07-29-2015 , 06:43 PM

#4500

Autocratic

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 11,276

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre

I see.

So murder in the second degree?

You're looking at federal codes. This will be a state prosecution.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903

The downgrade to voluntary manslaughter is definitely going to be discussed. Voluntary manslaughter, subsection A:

Quote:

No person, while under the influence of sudden passion or in a sudden fit of rage, either of which is brought on by serious provocation occasioned by the victim that is reasonably sufficient to incite the person into using deadly force, shall knowingly cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.

My guess is this won't fall under "serious provocation," and a straight murder charge is more appropriate.

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