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Law and Order 2 Law and Order 2

03-15-2013 , 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
So a murder case rests on the head on an ex cop serving time for perjury?
Where does it say he is serving time?
03-15-2013 , 03:03 AM
I assumed so based on the opening line.
03-15-2013 , 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
I assumed so based on the opening line.
From CNN:

Quote:
Specifically, the judge noted that the detective had been suspended five days for taking "liberties" with a female motorist and lying about it to his supervisors; that judges had tossed out four confessions or indictments because Saldate had lied under oath; and that judges suppressed or vacated four confessions because Saldate had violated a person's constitutional rights.

"The state knew of the evidence in the personnel file and had an obligation to produce the documents," Kozinski said. "... There can be no doubt that the state failed in its constitutional obligation."
He interrogated her for fourteen hours. Nobody else present. Nobody on the other side of the 2-way mirror. No video tape. No audio tape. Nothing written or signed by her. He destroyed his notes.

And the jury sent her to death row on basically just his testimony of her "confession".
03-15-2013 , 03:14 AM
Yea, that's wrong.

FWIW, I doubt you could get such a conviction under those circumstances today.

I mean it's still possibly to get convictions on stupid **** using those kinds of tactics, but a Death Penalty case? Not here anyway.
03-15-2013 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
LMAO.

I didn't even click the link until you posted Angus.

Here's some good reading Omaha:

Quote:
When police arrived, the elderly woman was wandering in the backyard holding a gun.
Officers say they shot her after she repeatedly ignored their requests to drop the weapon.
Also:

Quote:
According to The News and Advance Lynchburg, Towler wasn't wearing her hearing aid or glasses at the time of the incident so may not have been aware that the two officers had been dispatched to her home.

Before police arrived, Towler got her gun - which she'd never used - from her nightstand and fired in the air from her bedroom as a warning.

She then attempted to walk through her backyard to her sister's house, two doors down. But before she made it there, the officer had fired, shooting the elderly woman dead.
03-15-2013 , 04:17 PM
Yea, that's not really something you can reasonably assume.

Tactically, by her wandering around with a gun without being able to see or hear her surroundings puts her in very severe danger from whoever she's trying to defend herself against.

I mean it's a sad situation no doubt, and I'm positive there were issues that need to be corrected, but you truly can't help taking any opportunity to point out Omaha's fails, given his posting history ITT.
03-15-2013 , 07:21 PM
Quote:
According to The News and Advance Lynchburg, Towler wasn't wearing her hearing aid or glasses at the time of the incident so may not have been aware that the two officers had been dispatched to her home.
This actually makes it more likely the shooting was justified. If she didn't know cops had been dispatched, and she wasn't aware it was the police who had entered her yard, it's much more likely that she pointed her gun at what she perceived as an unknown intruder.
03-15-2013 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaFanatical4
But why should someone be unable to pay their rent? The phenomenon of homelessness is entirely preventable. It is precisely state intervention in the economy, most notably in the labour and housing markets, that causes this issue. 'quality' regulations ensure that housing is expensive, that the housing which those at the very lowest income levels in our society could afford is illegal to construct. Unemployment, which is certainly a significant cause in evictions is also entirely preventable. But what causes unemployment? Is it a lack of inflation, as the Keynesians claim? Or is the brutal inner workings of capitalism itself? Not at all. There are no shortages or gluts on the market. The real problem with unemployment is the minimum wage. When the market is prevented from clearing, by establishing a minimum price, this results in a glut which in the case of the labour market, we label unemployment. This is entirely preventable, simply by abolishing the minimum wage. Of course there are other types of unemployment and disemployment caused by other labour regulations (i.e. the prohibitions on child labour and the criminalization of working excessive hours in a day or a week), and of course all of these regulations should be abolished as well. The solution is simply deregulation.

Instead of blaming the landlord, for evicting the old woman who cannot pay her rent, we should ask 'why can't she pay her rent'. The source of all economic ills is the state. The state, which has savaged the economy, through it's endless plunder and theft. The state which hobbles free enterprise, at every turn. When you consider the opportunity costs inherent in the ridiculous waste that is government expenditure, when you consider how much more prosperous we would all be if we were free, then you understand how radically different society would be without the state, without it's endless and needless regulation, taxation and general intereference in the lives of individuals.

Or we could go your way and abolish private property. Heard that worked out pretty well the last couple dozen times it was attempted.
Bwahahahaha!

What a pile of crap.

How about this. She can pay her rent but she's not paying it.
03-16-2013 , 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Shouldn't these Moors be squatting in Seville or Tangier or something? They seem a bit lost.
Venice imo

Get back the house that bitch Desdemona took in the divorce.
03-16-2013 , 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by will1530
This actually makes it more likely the shooting was justified. If she didn't know cops had been dispatched, and she wasn't aware it was the police who had entered her yard, it's much more likely that she pointed her gun at what she perceived as an unknown intruder.
I had the same thought, but since they didn't report it IDK.
03-16-2013 , 12:18 AM
We got a little old lady firing warning shots out the window without being able to see or hear properly and then wandering through the neighborhood armed with the belief that there's a threat around. I think i'll give the cops a pass on this one.
03-16-2013 , 12:21 AM
You know, I once punched a 67 year old woman in the face in her kitchen.

Spoiler:
She'd just struck me with a baking sheet and was about to hit me with a frying pan.
03-16-2013 , 01:21 AM
Your grandma sounds even worse than mine. I just got whacked on the knuckles with a wooden spoon when i reached for a cookie before they cooled.
03-16-2013 , 01:45 AM
Wasn't my grandma.

It was the grandma of a fugitive.
03-16-2013 , 02:08 AM
At least there were no lasting effects.
03-16-2013 , 02:45 AM
Other than the obvious brain damage?

Spoiler:
Sorry couldn't resist
03-16-2013 , 04:14 AM
I don't think baking sheet blows to the arm cause brain damage.
03-18-2013 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjoefish
So say a sheriff says he's not going to uphold X law. Could a citizen not go to court to try and compel the sheriff to enforce it?
Unless it's a civil rights issue, no.

Like say for example a local religious group was offended the newly elected Sheriff said he wasn't going to enforce the law on using obscene language in public, no that's not really grounds to win a lawsuit.
03-18-2013 , 09:29 PM
Article I was reading earlier was discussing Colorado sheriffs saying they weren't going to uphold the new laws and how a citizen could bring a lawsuit to force them to. I guess it could be different from state to state but I wouldn't think so.
03-18-2013 , 09:44 PM
Well a citizen could bring a lawsuit sure, I don't know how they could justify a court finding for the plaintiff in such a suit, and if so I have no idea how you think you'd enforce it.

What are you going to do, follow every deputy around to ensure they're not intentionally overlooking standard mags?

It's a pointless exercise. Now instead of just being forthright and saying "I refuse to uphold this law" they will say "I didn't see it".
03-18-2013 , 09:58 PM
Even in that situation courts don't really touch the argument that you'd have the discretion to use your resources (paid time) as you see fit, right?

Either way, isn't there something like this in your police manual?

Quote:
Officers are vested with a broad range of discretion when deciding whether or not to make an arrest. This directive is not intended to deprive any officer of this discretion provided it is exercised in accordance with departmental rules
and regulations and in furtherance of the police mission. The exercise of discretion, when not specifically restricted, will be governed by objectivity, equality of law enforcement action, and fairness. Officers will not allow personal prejudices or biases to influence the conduct of official duties. The proper exercise of discretion does not relieve the investigating officer of his/her responsibility to conduct a thorough preliminary investigation of the event.
03-18-2013 , 10:20 PM
No, we discuss discretion in our Inservice manual, but that specific wording isn't used.

That being said, it's not personal bias, in the case rjoe is referring to its departmental bias.

As for me, my refusal would be an ethical issue, not a legal one.

I see this in no reasonable way different from being allowed to use marijuana due to my position while arresting others for it.

Before the "What about speeding?" Thing comes out, the difference in my view is that carrying a gun is a tool for MY safety and protection. The fact that I'm allowed to exceed the speed limit at certain times is far more analogous to say a demolitions expert being "allowed" to blow up buildings.

My job as a police officer is to investigate crimes and take reports (and as a Sheriffs deputy to execute writs of the court). I do not NEED a gun to accomplish that task, I can simply behave in the manner of Emergency Medical personnel and not go in to attempt to conduct my investigation until the scene is safe.

But yes, the courts aren't really going to be able to do much. If the citizens of that area of jurisdiction desire a Sheriff who will allocate more resources to magazine bans, US government structure has a remedy for that.
03-18-2013 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
As for me, my refusal would be an ethical issue, not a legal one.
And that wouldn't undercut some sort of ethical understanding that you're expected not to interject your personal political views into enforcement discretion?

Like, if some sort of national gun registry was instituted and background checks and reporting was required for private transfers, and you disagreed with that policy, would you not arrest people illegally carrying weapons? Where do you personally draw the line on using that kind of discretion in the name of having an ethical issue?
03-18-2013 , 11:03 PM
If a national gun registry were instituted, I could no longer in good conscious work in Law Enforcement and would demand my retirement and utilize my skills where they'd be more needed.


As an aside, what are your feelings on the fact I refuse to enforce drug laws?
03-18-2013 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
If a national gun registry were instituted, I could no longer in good conscious work in Law Enforcement and would demand my retirement and utilize my skills where they'd be more needed.
lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
As an aside, what are your feelings on the fact I refuse to enforce drug laws?
Obviously depends on a ton of information not available to me. What goes into your decision not to enforce drug laws?

      
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