Law and Order 2 - Page 106 - Politics and Economics

Am I allowed to tackle some guy, hold him down, and ultimately cause his death, as long as I dont know any better? I'm pretty ****ing stupid, you'd be amazed at the things I dont "know any better."

Do you have a responsibility to remove individuals from the property in question? In the process of doing so, were you faced with violence? Did the violence increase as you attempted to subdue the attacker?

I mean, I think we get from this post the things you "don't know".

02-18-2013 , 08:14 PM

#2627

vhawk01

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,866

Sure, I have a responsibility. That exculpates me from the consequences of my actions?

And violence might be a bit strong of a word to use to describe, as you yourself put it, "a Down's Syndrome patient struggling to breathe." (paraphrased) The more I assault someone, the more likely they are to struggle. This does not constitute "violence" which "justifies" my further assault, right? At what point in this positive feedback cycle AM I responsible?

02-18-2013 , 08:17 PM

#2628

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,698

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhawk01

And violence might be a bit strong of a word to use to describe, as you yourself put it, "a Down's Syndrome patient struggling to breathe."

But he was violently struggling to breathe!

02-18-2013 , 08:18 PM

#2629

vhawk01

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,866

I guess what I'm (still) looking for is, do you think the consequences would have been the same if instead of being off-duty cops these security guards...werent?

Asked in the Dorner thread in OOT (perhaps the only positive thing to come from that idiotic thread):

Imagine you are walking down the street in LA and a guy turns the corner who looks like Dorner. You are armed, so you take aim, and shoot and kill him. What would be the consequences if:

1. You are a police officer and you were wrong, it wasnt Dorner.
2. You arent a police officer and you were right, it was.

Last edited by vhawk01; 02-18-2013 at 08:19 PM. Reason: 1. Nothing whatsoever. 2. Prison, likely for several years

02-18-2013 , 08:38 PM

#2630

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

This is the most hilariously uninformed post I've seen ITT in a while, and there's less knowledge ITT that any I've seen ITF.

02-18-2013 , 08:47 PM

#2631

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Also, to answer your other question, it'd still fall back on responsibility and authority.

Since theatre security have no right to detain for misdemeanor criminal acts (Trespass in this case), they'd need to show they were being threatened, rather than show he was resisting lawful custody.

02-18-2013 , 08:49 PM

#2632

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

This is the most hilariously uninformed post I've seen ITT in a while, and there's less knowledge ITT that any I've seen ITF.

pearwithmouthdotjpeg

02-18-2013 , 08:53 PM

#2633

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Alas, it is difficult to be so much smarter than those around me, but it's my cross to bear I guess.

02-18-2013 , 09:31 PM

#2634

Oroku$aki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle

Canadian prisons that bad?

Naw, they're a walk in the park, full of canadians so they're not that bad.

02-18-2013 , 09:37 PM

#2635

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Do Canadians even have the ability to act violently?

02-18-2013 , 09:44 PM

#2636

Oroku$aki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7,063

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

Do Canadians even have the ability to act violently?

Of course not! Violence is impolite.

02-19-2013 , 01:23 AM

#2637

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaFanatical4

ya ya ya. Look jayteeme, I grew up in a household of three women, I'm well aware that everything that has ever happened in the history of mankind is my fault. and kudos on teaching me those latin terms. I guess I never really considered I could go to prison, just because i liked to put something up my nose. Personally I love ketamine... it's an anti-depressant, seems pretty non toxic (on the other hand it does make me pretty ****ing delusional, so who knows could be causing some brain damage)... I just don't see why I should rot in prison because while other people are out poisoning their livers and drinking beer, getting into fights, having sex with ugly women and crashing into families of four with their vehicles I prefer to get ****ed up on ketamine and play internet chess or make like a million queens in sc 2 and loose to some marine maurauder mix.

I don't even really understand how I got caught. I think the ****ing taxi driver informed on me. I get into a cab, then the next thing I know I'm somewhere downtown trying to hail a cab, and then the cop is talking to me, and then I'm bounded and shackled on my side in the back of the cruiser. whatever. life goes on. another victory for law and order.

sounds like you were pretty high iyam

02-19-2013 , 05:44 AM

#2638

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

I really can't see any chain of events where I would start beating up on a mentally challenged dude (barring that extremely unlikely circumstance where a downie gets a gun or a knife and is threatening people). I mean he's got down syndrome, how difficult is it going to be to out with this guy? Most likely they started with aggressive tactics, started screaming at him, he was bewildered, then they turned violent, then he died. A tragic lapse in judgement, that resulted in this guys murder.

They should all be executed.

02-19-2013 , 05:46 AM

#2639

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

Even if you have to get a little physical to get him out of there, why arrest him? What possible good is that going to serve? Why would you want to put a down syndrome guy behind bars for wanting to see a movie twice? You've got 3 guys you could literally just carry him out of there, or grab his arms and get him to leave. Or let him watch the ****ing movie again, not really the end of the world.

02-19-2013 , 10:15 AM

#2640

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Not sure if slow pony

Robert Saylor's Death Ruled A Homicide: Man With Down Syndrome Died In Police Custody

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...usaolp00000003

Quote:

The death of a man with Down syndrome who was reportedly killed after lying face-down in police custody has been ruled a homicide.

WJLA reports that Robert Saylor, 26, of New Market, Md., was asphyxiated on Jan. 12, according to a medical examiner's ruling late last week.
A "law enforcement source familiar with the case" told the station that Saylor "went into distress when he was put face down on the ground."

Police were reportedly called to a Frederick movie theater by employees who couldn't get Saylor to leave. He had come to the theater with a health aide, paid admission for "Zero Dark Thirty," but allegedly remained after it was over.

Dr. George Kirkham, a criminologist and former law enforcement officer, told the Frederick News Post that Saylor's death may have been caused by positional asphyxia.

02-19-2013 , 04:24 PM

#2641

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/19/is...tment-using-pi

OFFICER SAFETY

02-19-2013 , 04:51 PM

#2642

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Couple things here:

Firstly, LETI sells a whole ****load of stuff unrelated to that, so LOL at the author attempting to go all "DHS spent 3.4M with this contractor, HOW MANY PREGGERS WITH GUNZ TARGETS CAN YOU BUY WITH THAT?!"

Secondly, what is being done (in a really ham fisted and ignorant way) is training to break your stereotypical mold of what a threat is. Statistically, a lot more cops get injured by small females than large males.

02-19-2013 , 05:07 PM

#2643

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

I for one am ecstatic to learn that cops are being conditioned to shoot pregnant women and children. Better that 10,000 tax slaves be killed than one police officer suffer a stubbed toe.

02-19-2013 , 05:09 PM

#2644

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

She has a gun you nut.

So does the kid.

02-19-2013 , 05:15 PM

#2645

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

Silly me, thinking the nut would be the person firing lead into pictures of children and pregnant women. I thought those were the ones on the firing course you were supposed to not shoot...

02-19-2013 , 05:17 PM

#2646

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

It's a brave new world America. Maybe this is a new form of egalitarianism. Repression and police brutality for all! No longer will the police simply beat down on young black males, now everyone can get an equal taste of the naked violence that is the state.

02-19-2013 , 05:18 PM

#2647

DblBarrelJ

2+2 Resident Enforcer

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13,857

Wait, you thought the ones with the guns were the ones you weren't supposed to shoot?

02-19-2013 , 05:19 PM

#2648

will1530

self-banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaFanatical4

Silly me, thinking the nut would be the person firing lead into pictures of children and pregnant women. I thought those were the ones on the firing course you were supposed to not shoot...

You should feel terrible when one of the biggest trolls on the forum routinely crushes you. Your arguments and viewpoints are just terrible. Pls stop posting, you're making the rest of us look bad. btw I'm one of the more vocal critics of force used by police.