Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
I think we're already pushing the boundaries of what "whiteness" is about as far as they're going to go. We've already absorbed the low-hanging fruit like the Irish, Italians, Polish, Catholics, etc long ago. Jews are sort of on the way to becoming an accepted member of Team Whitey. But what's left? Certainly not blacks, Muslims, Hispanics, or mixed-race people. Maybe Asians to some extent (as an example, former 2p2er Wil made a hero effort to join the team), but the Great Yellow Peril of China is probably going to continue to be an important heel for white America. I know Republicans were making a play to court Hispanic voters in the 2000's, but they kind of **** the bed there with Trump.
So yes being a Real American in 2018 doesn't mean exclusively being a WASP like it did in 1918, but I think we can only stretch the label so far and in a generation or two it's inevitable that "whites" will no longer be a majority.
Hard to predict, but glibly: so long as whites get the best of everything, and so long as racial minorities are exploited and degraded -- there's going to be huge incentives for people -- be they mixed race, Hispanic, black, Asian, whatever -- to try to join the construct of whiteness. If only implicit, and over a long period of time.
I think your argument is that since the world is often perceived as zero-sum in nature, current members of the 'full whiteness' club will continue to try to restrict the definition of whiteness to its most limited possible definition while still maintaining enough numerical vibrancy to control political power. Probably for lots of people because they're simply utterly deplorable, but perhaps also because it's strategic -- because they recognize the privilege and status whiteness affords, and because they see the world as zero-sum, they see expansion as degradation of their own standing. In my gut, it's probably both: the symbiotic relationship between dominance and power and loathing exist in parallel in the deplorable mind, and feed off of each other. But that's all pop psych, I guess.
In the end, I agree with you that the current generation of right-wingers is absolutely loathe to expand whiteness, which is what I think you're basically arguing: hey, the Poles and Jews and Catholics are basically in now, but they'll never accept Muslims or Mexicans, etc.
Whether they can maintain that posture is an open question. I agree with your read of right-winger desires, but I am not sure how tenable the current idea of whiteness is. But I think that's fundamentally where politics lives these days, at its core. And it more or less the battle that is playing out right now and will likely define most of our political lives over the coming generation or two: can the current construct of whiteness and its members maintain political leverage via a combination of statutory chicanery, disenfranchisement, authoritarian policing, etc. to restrict social and political and economic benefits to the maximum benefit of the currently privileged? That is, can they go full ethnostate and apartheid? That's not historically unprecedented; it could happen.
Or will whiteness it be forced to expand and broaden due to various pressures (e.g., anything from losing elections to mass chaotic street violence and civil war, or whatever falls in between). Something akin to that absolutely started during the end of the Gilded Age and Progressive Era where 'whiteness' went from some conceit of "pure blooded WASP-yness", and due to a combination of social and political changes evolved to a "well, it's just sort of a subjective view of skin pigmentation, and if you're the kind of guy who puts his cell phone on a clip on his belt on the outside of his pants and fantasizes about vigilante violence against young black men, you're in" that it is today, regardless if your ancestors are from Ireland or Eastern Europe or Cuba or whatever. I mean George Zimmerman will probably be the Nathan Bedford Forrest of the late 21st century white supremacists, they're going to try to construct statues of him in public spaces and ****, and he's a former Catholic altar boy with Peruvian and African ancestry.
But in any case, whatever version of whiteness prevails, my ultimate retort to simplicitus then is that no matter how
that battle plays out, 'white people' -- the idea of whiteness and the power and privileges whites have in the US -- probably aren't doomed. The
current construct of whiteness may be on its way out, but as I alluded to earlier, like a religion, its fate can ebb and flow and the construct can expand and contract but its adaptability has proven robust over a long period of time now.
When we get to the core of it, and if you'll allow me to do the leftist thing now: so long as we have an economic system predicated on exploration and hyper competitive struggle to accumulate resources, "race" is going to be a super convenient and malleable construct to justify an inequitable social reality. See how durable total pseudoscience race bull**** is, from phrenology to Charles Murray to Jordan Peterson -- it's enduring and everlasting. The incentives to maintain it are too strong to overcome since the benefits and harms are manifest and obvious, and so I think we're fated into lots of people simply working backwards into models they know to justify it.
And it's just hard to see how it will ever end so long as we practice capitalism in its current form.
Last edited by DVaut1; 06-21-2018 at 09:58 AM.