Last time I asked Jman to move a bunch of posts to a dedicated thread that already existed (from the profile a trumper thread I believe) I don't think it happened, so maybe somebody that's more of a Big Deal can knock it out.

And I don't think this woat posting is an accident in derails like this. My hypothesis is that, at least sometimes with some posters, they drop the takes here, and not in a dedicated thread where people can go nuts, because they know the discussion will get nipped.

i think your hypothesis is probably attributing too much forethought and consideration to these bootlicking jizmops stumbling over their algebra calcs itt

i think the reason it's not an accident is just because they are dumb and the AOC thread gets them angry and emboldened like manchildren in ways that other dedicated threads dont (like the bezos one)

Economics of agglomeration are even stronger today with knowledge workers than 500 years ago with shipwrights. Working remotely and telecommunications in general actually contributed to concentration of knowledge workers because, for example, NYC can provide the banking and legal needs of the country/world without the bankers/lawyers leaving NYC.

But of course you don’t care.

lol, sounds like communism worked out great for these people.

First picture looks like a pleasant city with green open spaces, not much pollution etc. Second picture looks like ****ing bladerunner or really any other dystopian nightmare future city. All other things being equal (obviously they're not) I'd much rather live in the first picture than in the building shaped like a bar blade for the worlds biggest beer bottles

Like I'd rather live in prague than coruscant even though the gdp per capita is probably lower.

They aren't communists.

I've been to Shanghai and I am hammering the "Option B" button before I even get shown what option B is.

The exception would be questioning whether aoc made a serious error or disingenuous comment when she ticked off things that the 3 bill could better be spent on as if the Amazon deal kept that money away from such things

Exactly. They're a Republic. The moose out front should have told you. Just ask them! And stop labeling imo

Comparison to the Chinese is totally unfair since they have a system that guarantees that people won't be displaced and no new developments will take place until there is full consensus among the public. Also, Shanghai is just an outlier of enlightened urban form, lightning can't possibly strike twice imo.

As this now seems to be the thread for Corporate Welfare in general (?) here's how Google keeps the public in the loop with their developments.


Public records requests reveal the elaborate shell-company secrecy that Google uses when seeking subsidies for data-centers

Washington Post article on which the above was based can be found at

Google reaped millions in tax breaks as it secretly expanded its real estate footprint across the U.S.

Nothing sketchy about this all.

I bet if we cut the nominal corporate tax rate this nonsense will end.

This is what it boils down to. They will turn down 25 000 high paying jobs just to be able to give the finger to Jeff Bezos.

On another note, I wonder if the "corporations are evil because they don't pay living wages" crowd actually cared about living wages. Probably just a front argument so that they can label corporations as evil.

When the opportunity came to get these jobs it was like shining light over vampires, they couldn't be more upset!

Since these Amazon jobs are obviously BAD for the municipalities and cities, would it serve America better if these jobs were outsourced to China instead?

A real mental pretzel.

Oh please Tien, you would write a $3bil check to every Bezos out there without even checking to see what the social costs because you have #feelings more so than people in LIC.

That's definitely it. I used to hate corporations because they are evil but I could not articulate exactly why they are evil, I just knew it. Like you know you have Creek blood because your mom and dad said so or you know that somewhere on your middle school menu next week raisins and carrots will appear, you just know. Thankfully a bunch of socialists came along and invented "LIVING WAGE" so my ire has a permanent raison d’être.

If there is anything I hate more than evil corporations it is living wages. Somebody hush up Tien, he is getting to close to the truth.

My friend that loves to travel to Cuba hates all the new development going on. He argues (on behalf of Cuba's sake) that its better if they kept themselves non developed and poor.... Because its better for them.... I wonder why he feels that way.

You can go live in the first picture tomdemaine, its called 3rd world undeveloped countries. Why don't you? Because you need all things to be equal!!!

Nothing worse than paying people a wage they can live on ... except maybe giving people enough to live on when they are unemployed.

I could pretty easily get a job at ~2X my current wage if I moved to london but **** that.

So the development of this project would have given an immediate influx of jobs to:

Construction workers (thousands)
Designers
Architects
Administrative assistants
Secretaries
security guards
Cleaning personel
local manufacturing
Managers
Accountants
Teachers (amazon was going to build a school)
All the supporting staff of the new HQ that are not in tech.

And those tech jobs that apparently nobody in LIC could fill.

Trade off: Rents go up.

Whatever. If you don't want the jobs, there's no amount of facts or arguments that will convince you. I admit the beauty pageant that Bezos did doesn't look good at all considering its one of the most valuable companies in the world. But fist bumping at this "victory" is so self defeating.

Unless we're talking past each other I think you're making part of my point for me. Agglomeration of a niche sector leads to a larger overall deagglomeration. Which is not a bad thing unless you think the ideal society is 400mm people clustered together in one huge Amazon Company Town. Can we agree that what's happened in the Bay Area is, and define this term how you wish, 'bad'?

Of course I care, that's why I posted about it. What I want to know is what's the endgame you envision for all of this? I know Tien is the one that kept screeching about 'progress' and I shouldn't lump you two together even though you're on the same side of this debate, but, you need to realize that the crux of this argument isn't that people hate progress, it's that I/we/they don't define progress this way, at all.. It's stagnation and retrogression hidden behind a slimmer smartphone casing.

What are all the people that would've filled these jobs doing now?

It doesn't have to be bad. Good urban planning can ameliorate the negative effects of agglomeration (we see this a lot in Tokyo post the real estate bubble).

The trick, as far as I could tell with what's happened in Europe, Japan, some other parts of Asia, is to have a robust public transport system and to disperse industries while maximizing mobility of the labor force.

Urban planners/economists are getting to a point of near unanimous agreement that cars have to go and that mass public transport AND a lot of walking have been extremely successful in promoting economic growth and socio-economic mobility. One of the main mechanisms for this is simply forcing the poor and rich to work in close proximity to each other, opening up opportunities for learning and education that are much more limited in America's current model of urban centers + suburbs (read white flight if you prefer.)

I have been trying to make it clear I am not a fan of what's happening with corporate subsidies overall in the country and I do strongly believe there needs to be better urban planning (including higher city taxes and more educational support and infrastructure investments). Coordinated action on the federal level is very much needed. But until then, as a New Yorker, I think I get to be mad when people like Gianaris just basically throws a tantrum because he didn't get to negotiate the deal and take credit for it, all the while the poorest of his constituents are telling him to **** off and just let AMZN come.

AMZN was just a rare case where things actually fit. NYC really does need AMZN and AMZN was going to a place that is most prepared to absorb it.