whelp Im convinced. since tropic thunder didnt get any criticism, I guess that means its blackface is A-OK. thanks for showing me the light. Im off to notify the world.

I think he probably is one of the ones in the photo, but let's run a hypothetical here. So, let's say he gets two guys to admit they were the ones in the picture. Also assume that there is no convincing evidence to the contrary. Is he off the hook then?

It seems like that's almost worse than where we were yesterday. Yesterday, he admits he made a mistake in his youth and says that it was very wrong.

Today he is a senile old man who can't remember if he was in a particular photo, but apparently knows he was racist enough that it could have been him. So he is just as formerly racist as he was, but now he's losing his mind as well.

FFS, Victor, I'm not saying blackface is OK.

And to be perfectly clear, whether it was OK or not in TT, definitely doesn't make it OK.

What I am saying is that if it was OK in TT, then it is really difficult to give a good explanation why that can't be used as any excuse for any other improper use of blackface (which is nearly all of them).

No. That simple answer doesn't work. Even if the intention is not to offend, blackface is still offensive. People have been skewered for this many times and rightly so.

Moreover, you can't just use blackface and say sorry, "It's just that my execution was poor, I really didn't mean to offend anyone." I mean you can say it, but it's not a legit excuse. You should know better, especially these days.

You are missing the point.

Downey Jr wasn't doing blackface. He was portraying a black character. There's a big difference.

the real question is why are you asking these questions? like, what is your end goal? who is being implicitly criticized?

WAT? One bolded is just laughably wrong. There is almost no point in discussing it if you actually think that. Have you seen the movie?

Two, "portraying a black character" is not a legit excuse. Sorry. If Victor wants to dress up as LeBron James for halloween. He can't just say "I'm just portraying a black person. No offense intended. I love LeBron". It would still be extremely offensive.

Okay, I'm going to take a wild guess you have no clue what went on in Tropic Thunder because you would understand why Downey Jr wasn't doing blackface.

I mean, have you stopped and thought why there wasn't a huge outrage from the black community like you see elsewhere?

But you're asking really stupid questions about it.

But you're asking really stupid questions about it being ok sometimes.

I mean really, how tone deaf and dumb do you have to be? WHY would you need to know when blackface is alright?

Unless someone is paying you whatever RDJ got for TT it is never alright for YOU to wear blackface.

If you get into an actual argument where someone brings up TT as an excuse for wearing black face you are most likely talking to a racist and should just laugh at them and walk away.

FFS, again, why do you care?

RDJ didn't get any **** for it because it was being used to highlight racial issues in Hollywood. It was being used for a political cause that most people can readily understand from the context. Those that can't tend to be, well, dumb and/or racist.

I ****ing hate when people do this. Just stick to the arguments. Don't try to assume some sort of ulterior motive. I don't have an end goal.

I get that it's uncomfortable for you, but sometimes the truth is not black and white (pun unintended). There is a lot of gray, and TT is an example of that.

Here's my official position on blackface, FWIW:

The statement blackface is 100% wrong is untrue. Blackface is actually 99.9999999 % wrong. There are some very limited circumstances in which it can be justified. But those are so rare and difficult to find. If someone decides to try to hit that target and wear blackface, but they miss and end up being offensive anyway (which is the near certain result), then they deserve all the criticism they get. The should have known that they were just about a lock to fail and offend anyway.

TT may have hit the target. But I'm not even sure about that. Many people do seem to think so.

If you think the above position makes me some sort of racist or blackface apologist, then I can't help you with that. It's a lot messier than the categorical position that blackface is always wrong, but sometimes that's the way reality is.

This is just making both of you seem dumb.

You mean kind of like the exact example I gave in my post.

You mean after you went through a ****ing Homeric Odyssey pondering when it was alright to use blackface? Yeah, you nailed it...

Have you actually seen the movie?

Downey Jr was ultimately playing a white method actor. The movie has these nuances everyone seems to overlook that I think a lot of African Americans who are offended by blackface normally understood.

kerowo,

The fact that someone can come up with the piping hot take that "Downey wasn't doing blackface" is probably sufficient justification for having the discussion in the first place.

Zoolander?

What I don't understand is how Ben Stiller murdered a bunch of people in Tropic Thunder and there were never any criminal charges.

Thank you a ton for legitimately answering my question instead of trolling me like everyone else in this thread did.

I wasn't asking why it's not okay, I understand that it's racism behind it when it's used most of the time and how it is offensive. While others just simply dismissed my question as being racist for some reason or simply assuming that I was being racist for asking a question that I was legit curious about. I was not asking why its general use was considered racist which is obvious and don't understand posters who thought I was

Thank you, your posts on this subject were really well thought out

My memory is hazy but there was a lot of initial pushback about Tropic Thunder when it was leaked (promoted?, not sure the terminology) that RDJ was doing black face, and a lot of the movie people saying "no don't worry it's tasteful" and a lot of people saying "sure, we're heard that before. Typical white people taking advantage of black people for entertainment".

Then the movie came out and some critical mass of black people didn't mind it. Though I do remember some people saying it was still bad.

The only controversy I remember from Tropic Thunder was the scene about going "full ******."

Who cares if RDJ "got away" with it, or if Tropic Thunder fell under the acceptable use of blackface as it pertains to entertainment/social commentary. At best dressing in blackface shows a lack of sensitivity to what it historically represents. At worst you're a complete racist POS. When you pair a blackface costume with a dude in a klan costume, it's that worst case scenario. The only reason I can think of for legitimately trying to draw a line on what is/isn't OK when it comes to blackface is you want to push racial buttons without facing questions. Like when you're told to stop bothering your sister so you hold your finger 2 inches from her and yell "I'm not touching you" like you just figured out some magical loop hole in the rules. Don't be that a-hole.

Yeah, this is just plainly untrue. It's completely possible for someone to be intellectually curious about where exactly the line is, without having any intention of going anywhere near the line themselves. Or trying to justify something racist.

I think that's pretty clearly where bigt2k4 was at. I guess you could say he's lying. Or he's just a thinly-veiled racist with a hidden agenda. But that's an intellectually lazy cop out. And it's understandable why it's lazy, because in this case, drawing the line is not that easy to do.

Here's exhibit A. When asked why TT was OK, someone actually thought this:

The fact that everyone was taking shots at bigt24k, but very little was said about this masterpiece makes little sense to me. It's clearly more ignorant than anything bigt24k wrote and got a fraction of the criticism.

you hate when ppl do it bc it exposes you. your goal is clear. tropic thunder used blackface and libs laughed therefore libs are hypocrites and blackface isnt so bad.

its transparent bullsht. who cares about tropic thunder? maybe they balanced nuance and irony and parody and geniuineness and sensitivity and humor perfectly. or maybe they should have been criticized. the points, you are trying to use tropic thunder to diminish the seriousness and criticism of other blackface episodes and its transparent bs.

It's obvious you haven't even watched the movie before so spare me with the ignorant ****.




I mean Jamie Foxx wasn't even mad and understood it was a character. But itt white people whitesplaining race relations. lol

And if you don't understand the difference between using blackface to make fun of a race like it has been done in the past, and RDJ wasn't playing a black character to make fun of black people you're the one who is ignorant.