Israel Palestine - Page 712 - Politics and Economics

Hamas denied involvement, saying the launches took place as its leaders met Egyptian delegates about efforts to secure a long-term ceasefire with Israel.

Islamic Jihad and the Popular Resistance Committees, two smaller Gaza armed factions, also denied responsibility.

Israeli analysts speculated that Palestinian militants opposed to any deal between Hamas and Israel were behind the launchings.

bad news:

Quote:

Naftali Bennett, a member of Netanyahu’s security Cabinet who is vying against him for rightist votes in the looming election, demanded the assassination of Hamas chiefs. “The time has come to defeat Hamas once and for all,” he said on Thursday.

Netanyahu also faced pressure from the center-left opposition, whose leading candidate, former General Benny Gantz, said: “Only aggressive, harsh action will restore the deterrence that has eroded” under the prime minister’s watch.

03-15-2019 , 12:36 PM

#17777

metsandfinsfan

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The rockets were fired by hamas but they said it was an accident and Israeli intelligence agrees now that it likely was

03-15-2019 , 12:40 PM

#17778

grizy

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Accident my ass. lol. More likely a rogue op.

Baby step that Hamas is denying responsibility now. There is hope.

03-25-2019 , 02:05 PM

#17779

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

worth reading: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...pac-conference

Quote:

In the spring of 1996, after the Labor Party leader Shimon Peres lost the Israeli Prime Ministership, by a fraction of a per cent, to a youthful Benjamin Netanyahu, of the Likud, he summed things up for the journalist Daniel Ben-Simon. “We lost,” Peres said. “Who is ‘we’?” Ben-Simon asked. “We, the Israelis.” “And who won?” Ben-Simon pressed. “Call them ‘the Jews,’ ” Peres said. He had no doubt been thinking through the distinction—anyway, he didn’t simply pluck it out of thin air. Netanyahu’s American political consultant, the late Arthur Finkelstein, had discretely made much of it during the campaign; the polling analyst and researcher Dahlia Scheindlin, who, years later, worked briefly with Finkelstein, recalled that “he placed great weight on the poll question, ‘Do you consider yourself more Jewish or more Israeli?’ ” He seemed to think, she said, that the distinction “explained everything in Israeli politics.”

It certainly explains much about the upcoming Israeli election, on April 9th, which seems to be a statistical toss-up between two blocs: call them the Jews, led—or incited—by Netanyahu, and the Israelis, led by Benny Gantz, the former Army chief who is the candidate of the Blue and White Party, which he recently formed with Yair Lapid, a former finance minister and the founder of the centrist Yesh Atid (“There Is a Future”) Party. The election poses for Israelis as stark and as consequential a decision about democratic norms as the 2020 election does for Americans. Finkelstein’s distinction matters in the United States, too, since American Jews seem fated to play an outsized role in next year’s election—especially in the Democratic primaries, where debate about the American Israel Public Affairs Committee’s influence over U.S. policy on Israel and Palestine—prompted, but hardly fabricated, by tweets and pronouncements from the freshman Minnesota representative Ilhan Omar—seems likely to remain a matter of contention. Indeed, the issue of Israelis vs. Jews poses a special conundrum for the delegates at the annual aipac policy conference, beginning this weekend, in Washington, D.C. The distinction may seem crucial, but delegates generally tend to ignore it, assuming that being “pro-Israel” amounts to accepting the virtues of a “Jewish state.”

03-25-2019 , 04:09 PM

#17780

iamnotawerewolf

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Blue & White is polling fairly consistently ahead of Likud, fwiw, since their unification last month

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...election#Polls

03-25-2019 , 06:38 PM

#17781

metsandfinsfan

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It will be close

Trump signing the Golan heights acknowledgeny today may help Bibi

03-25-2019 , 07:15 PM

#17782

Yuv

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,940

Again, the amount of seats they get is irrelevant. It's about the blocs. They are drawing near dead.

Gantz, the former Army chief, is also getting destroyed by the Bibi propaganda machine. He keeps messing up interviews and I believe it will end in a relative landslide for Netanyahu.

03-25-2019 , 09:31 PM

#17783

Crossnerd

quite smart as well

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 39,556

Anyone arguing with mets in here should probs know about this first

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

No words?

Here are some words

Mod note: Mets linked to a massively racist, anti-Muslim diatribe. I am not allowing that link here, but you can follow the forum link to POG, where apparently that is allowed.

Last edited by MrWookie; 03-25-2019 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Removed link

03-26-2019 , 03:54 AM

#17784

batair

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Dont think ill ever understand Jewish people who support trump when he gives hope to the people who want their extermination. Giving hope to white supremacist who dont want Jews to replace them with brown and black people is a dangerous game. And thats not the only dangerous game. The other one is the endstime folk in high positions of power. They dont care if Israel is front and center and destroyed in the war to end all wars. They want that to happen. Strange allies.

All because libs want the Palestinians to have a homeland of their own.

03-27-2019 , 12:26 AM

#17785

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

It is indeed mind-blowing. Trump does poll 74/26 against with American Jews, so there's not *that* much support in the US. It's not *that* much different than the 82/18 with Muslim Americans.

03-27-2019 , 12:36 AM

#17786

batair

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I know but even that small amount is surprising. The enemy of my enemy i guess.

03-27-2019 , 02:32 AM

#17787

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

I know but even that small amount is surprising. The enemy of my enemy i guess.

That's not right. I mean how do you explain the 18% Muslim support then?

It's not the enemy of my enemy. It's dumb Jews, rich Jews who want the tax cuts more than anything else, racist Jews, and Jews who are just unthinking partisan Republicans, but very little of it is Jews who specifically hate Muslims. I mean, among the 26% I'm sure it's a popular sentiment, but that's the case with Trump voters generally. It's not the enemy of my enemy. And anyway, it's not like if that was your central issue you wouldn't see HRC (see Libya) as an ally.

Last edited by microbet; 03-27-2019 at 02:40 AM.

03-27-2019 , 02:39 AM

#17788

batair

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I didn't mean Muslims. I meant an independent Palestine state is the enemy. But you are right there are probably a lot of different reasons.

03-27-2019 , 02:47 AM

#17789

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

I didn't mean Muslims. I meant an independent Palestine state is the enemy. But you are right there are probably a lot of different reasons.

Trump is all over the place, but I think he said some things about a Palestinian state before the election that wouldn't have pleased such people. HRC was not going to be making an independent Palestinian state, and American Jews poll about the same as the general American population on "more sympathetic towards the state of Israel in the conflict" and "more sympathetic towards Palestinians". Though, since American Jews are much more likely to be Democrats than Republicans they are more on the Israeli support side *for* Democrats.

But, as you say there - mainly I just don't think it's a determining factor for many people. Like, look at someone like metsandfins. He's Trumpian from top to bottom.

03-27-2019 , 03:19 AM

#17790

batair

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Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

He kind of linked a Muslim hate site... What he believes idk i have not read many of his posts maybe he is ok with a Palestine state.

Trump says a lot of things. I think you underestimate people like Pence, Pompeo, DeVos and others scattered around in the GOP who are true believers in the endtimes and who dont want a Palestine state. Either way whatever the reasons its still an odd alliance.

Last edited by batair; 03-27-2019 at 03:28 AM.

03-27-2019 , 03:28 AM

#17791

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

I tend to think that Evangelical endtimes thing is 99% BS. They talk about it, but it's phony as hell imo.

03-27-2019 , 03:30 AM

#17792

batair

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Yeah i know we would disagree there. I dont think its widespread but they exist. And even without them the GOP has been moving more to the hardliners in Israel so the choice would be clear if you did not want a Palestinian state to happen.

03-27-2019 , 03:47 AM

#17793

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

I tend to think that Evangelical endtimes thing is 99% BS. They talk about it, but it's phony as hell imo.

The endtimes is 100% true to the Evangelicals. The Israelis think along the lines of 'so they're meshuggah, we'll take it for now.' Easy enough to ignore the fruity side to get the support.

03-27-2019 , 04:11 AM

#17794

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

The endtimes is 100% true to the Evangelicals. The Israelis think along the lines of 'so they're meshuggah, we'll take it for now.' Easy enough to ignore the fruity side to get the support.

I don't believe it. I think they're phony as hell.

The most true thing about it is that it's just identity politics.

03-27-2019 , 12:24 PM

#17795

metsandfinsfan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

A lot of it is Israel

Even if trump only supports Israel to appease the religious right or his orthodox daughter and soninlaw, at least he does. It's going to be very difficult for any Democrat candidate for president to support Israel in the current Democrat climate

Just as some people vote Democrat simply because of women's reproductive rights and ignore else it's okay for a jew to feel strongly enough about Israel that it becomes the deciding factor

03-27-2019 , 12:36 PM

#17796

microbet

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I don't believe your sincerity. You are just a Trumpkin. And as if Hillary wasn't a pro-Israel hawk. How was Trump even the pro-Israel right wing vote in 2016? He was campaigning at least partly as an isolationist. Hillary was an actual regime changer in the region.

That's all assuming your position on Israel and what's good for Israel isn't completely wrong and idiotic, so it's just for the purposes of this point.

And "deciding factor"... Lol. You have a posting history.

And **** off man. You support the neo-Nazi candidate.

Last edited by microbet; 03-27-2019 at 12:43 PM.

03-27-2019 , 12:40 PM

#17797

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

@mets

imagine being Jewish (dunno if you had relatives killed in the Holocaust, but most of us did) and voting for an actual Nazi sympathizer

it's ****ing shameful