Corbyn says: Shana Tova to all - have a sweet and happy New Year

I suspect if he posted here Wookie would ban him fairly quickly. He isn't anything like a George Galloway type of character though.

Any thoughts on Russia's intent in Syria?

Wrong thread? Are you suggesting this relates to Israel somehow?

Anyway, Russian/Arab and Russian/Iranian economic ties are deep. I went to a talk once from a UN vet who said that UN votes are basically entirely about politics; Russia very much enjoys having a strong Israel in the region. Israel is the lightning rod for the nutcases, while Russia buys and sells from governments who get to stay in power. This is about money for them. As it is for everyone.

I wanted to hear your thoughts. I see Putin and Netanyahu met "amid concerns about Russia's involvement in Syria." Obviously not directly related to the subject of this thread but I am generally free from being called a neocon nut job here. Thanks!

This

One of the unintentional benefits of all the lolactivists loving themselves some Palestinian Arabs is that the arguments some of the younger ones are hearing are human rights based, which means they're being exposed to some liberal human rights concepts. There is actually some uptake among the Palestinian upper class youth.

Of course, those ideas are competing with the traditional forms of, um, "resistance", which are much more widespread and supported by the mainstream. So it just means that, even in the context of a "one-state" solution, they may feel ever so slightly disappointed when the terror gangs slaughter Jews wholesale.

At best, they might tsk tsk while thinking that the JewsZionists deserved it.

Mahmoud Abbas: Palestinians 'cannot continue to be bound' by Oslo Accords

?

The most interesting thing about this is that Abbas has now decided that the Palestinian entity is a state under occupation (and has been since its "creation", lol).

So lol @ the "APARTHEID" people, first.

Second, lol @ the Kurds, Armenians, etc. This whole time, all they had to do was just say they are a state and they would have had one.

How embarrassing for them.

What is really noteworthy, of course, is that the Oslo debacle and Abbas declaration yesterday is really the entire relationship between Israel and the Palestinians for 3 decades.

The world pressures Israel to make real world, good will concessions to the Palestinians - giving up strategic land; releasing convicted terrorists who have high recidivism rates; settlement freezes that strangle families and communities. And in return, we get theoretical concessions, like paper-recognitions of the "right to exist", promises to stop violence, etc.

Oslo gave the Palestinians their own, legitimate government. It gave them land to govern. It gave them a place at the UN.

And they take all of those real world games and pocket it, and then walk away.

What does walking away from Oslo even mean then?

Pressing for one state?

Two state with different terms than Oslo?

Abdication of their government?

Declaration that they will not do anything to prevent attacks on Israel?

Grandstanding?

Overblown story?

Well that's the thing - it's largely grandstanding.

He's now pocketing the gains from all of the UN treaty stunts and will push for more international integration as if he's already a state.

A few weeks ago Abbas vowed to "drop a bombshell" at the UN General Assembly.

He was largely ignored, in light of his penchant for this sort of thing - he issues threats to resign, or disband the PA, about once a year.

Practically, who knows. The PA is a creature created and legitimized by Oslo, so without any legitimacy, I guess this means the Palestinians no longer have a government?

Or he is demanding that the administrative functions performed by Israel for the PA be cancelled?

What are the chances he meant that he wants Israel to stop providing free electricity and to stop transferring tax collections to the PA?

Give them free solar panels instead of free electricity imo.

You talk like Palestinian political society wants actual Palestinian Arabs to have better lives.

In related news, Mahmoud Abbas is building a $13M home near Ramallah.

what exactly are the real world concessions you think the PA should be giving? Yes there is an asymmetry but that is a function, at least in part, of the actual asymmetry where one is the occupier and one is the occupied. So for instance the last negotiations were premised on prisoners for no UN membership bid. What else should the PA be getting?

Besides, I would consider having their own, legitimate government, having land to govern, having a place at the UN to all be good things. This isn't some zero sum anything good for Palestinians is bad for Israel nonsense.

So what? All that shows is that along with most of the worlds leaders he's probably totally corrupt. No wonder the Labour Party in the UK has voted for a leader who's so different to the norm.

Ps welcome back

lol



what a clown

Hey Netanyahu, FYI

USA#1

Lol@ Keeed and Cookies, LC champs

Well, it's really hard to compete with such excellent CONTENT like the Newsweek article you posted of an artist's drawing of a proposed Palestinian building.

Informative post.

I don't know...
...actually sitting down and negotiating instead of UN and ICC stunts?
...agreeing to make the concessions of statehood etc contingent on stamping out incitement and terrorism?
...actively speaking out on moral grounds against violence and quashing incitement to "defend Palestine by any means", blaming Jews, etc?
...ending funding of the al Aqsa Brigades and terrorist salaries?
...renouncing claims to Israel on behalf of "refugees"?
...anything that prepares his people for peace, such as a public acknowledgement of Jewish indigeniety in Israel and equal religious rights in Jerusalem?
...acting strongly against Hamas and other terror groups?

Something - any one of those - that even reasonably compares to the tangible gains he has pocketed, which have lead to Israeli deaths, from the constant incitement by Abbas as well as his party?

What a thought-terminating cop-out.

98% of Palestinians live under PA rule and don't deal with Israelis except if they travel to Israel or close to Jewish towns. Are you saying they have no agency or control over their own behaviour because there are IDF bases a few km away on adjacent lands they claim as theirs, and a few checkpoints? You do know that the PA governs Palestinians, not the IDF, except as they relate to security arrangements, right?

Let's go further: which land exactly is "occupied"? For fun, tell me what you think is "occupied", from the mainstream Palestinian perspective, also. Why does "occupation" prevent Abbas from stamping out Hamas and terrorism as hard as he stamps out political dissent in his own party, or acting as if he is the State they already claim to be?

You do realize that "prisoners" are actually convicted murderers, who killed Israeli civilian men, women, and children, right?

What more do you think the PA deserved?

I would too - to the extent that those things are not simply used as mechanisms to extract more concessions, kill Israelis, and siphon aid money into personal wealth. Which they are being used for, because of the refusal to make any tangible concessions to Israel.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that you've never read a single post of mine. I've been saying this for years here. YEARS.

You are right.

What I was getting at:

The Palestinian economy is based largely on foreign aid, which is directly tied to the continued perception of the Palestinians as poor and embattled. As the chief lawmaker in a small, opaque government, he has a very strong ability to direct that aid to his own interests. Say, presidential palaces.

If peace broke out, Palestinian democracy became more robust and liberal, and foreign aid was reduced in favour of a more organic market economy, how would that affect Mahmoud Abbas's financial position?

That is a pretty hilariously bad list of "real world concession". Right after you mock only rhetorical concessions you give demands for rhetorical changes (real world concessions is changing their rhetoric? Uh....) We get "negotiating"...what on earth did you think the peace negotiations that traded no UN for prisoners was doing? They were negotiating. Pretty seriously. Both sides were intransigent and the UN stunts (entirely appropriate that they should be included in the UN only) only occurred after a prolonged bout of negotiating. You want "stamp out terrorism" as a condition of statehood....uh what state could ever guarantee this? I suppose you get brigades by default since I don't know how much of this is occurring.

That's great and all that you seized the opportunity do detail your litany of how horrible the Palestinians are. But your entire framing of your initial post that the Palestinians get government and land and UN and all these real world things they SHOULD get and that somehow this is bad and therefore Israel should be getting....uhh.......err........something else is complete nonsense.

Lol, let's see why:

Lol, you only read one concession that is admittedly vague? If you want to troll, fine, but I think you just decided to ignore the material.

No they weren't. Don't you remember who made the demands and put the deal together?

No, it didn't.

As an aside, why is it appropriate that the Palestinians be included as a full member state of the UN? What criteria are you using when making that assertion?

Where did I write that? Sorry, you're making things up again.

que?
Wow you are way gone. Lolrant.