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08-30-2012 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor
i dont see any need to address your last post about how much you love jews and how israelis want to oppress arabs as its just horribly, obnoxiously, disgustingly ignorant.



Maybe the secular ashkenazi american suburban hymie goldstein jews you know.
And I see your true colors shining through. Wow. I suppose with that comment it's official- you don't have a modicum of respect for anyone that doesn't agree that the Israelis position is supremely righteous in every way. It makes me think that maybe the worst consequence of the holocaust was in fact turning some proportion of Jews into fascists and you are certainly a fascist Gamblor.

Israel is afraid. They are afraid of their neighbors. They are afraid of losing the support of the U.S. as a result of more enlightened discourse. They are intensely afraid and that is why they put Likud in power. That is always why extremist right wing parties come into power- fear.
08-30-2012 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
Sorry but it most certainly is intractable. The Palestinians and other Muslim parties won't go for any solution that doesn't give them control over Jerusalem, and Temple Mount in particular. If not for that they would have had a deal in 2000 imo.


This is simply untrue. The Palestinians asked the UN for recognition on the 67 borders/line which only includes East Jerusalem.
08-30-2012 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
And I see your true colors shining through. Wow. I suppose with that comment it's official- you don't have a modicum of respect for anyone that doesn't agree that the Israelis position is supremely righteous in every way. It makes me think that maybe the worst consequence of the holocaust was in fact turning some proportion of Jews into fascists and you are certainly a fascist Gamblor.
Fascist doesn't mean what you think it means.

And my point was that North America and Europe have only a small subset of "the Jews" you claim to think are so great.

Quote:
Israel is afraid. They are afraid of their neighbors. They are afraid of losing the support of the U.S. as a result of more enlightened discourse. They are intensely afraid and that is why they put Likud in power. That is always why extremist right wing parties come into power- fear.
Lol. If you think Likud is an "extremist right wing" party you have literally zero understanding of the Israeli political landscape. Likud today is without a doubt to the left of even where Rabin was at the time of Oslo, but because some newspaper or op-ed or blog told you they are extremist, you repeat that as if it were true.

Ok, I'm done with you. You read a couple articles and now you think you're entitled to pontificate about who is good and bad and the cold, hard reality is that you know very little about the conflict.

I try to bring the facts - not "opinions" to light and you close your eyes and plug your ears. There's just no point.
08-30-2012 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor
I try to bring the facts - not "opinions" to light
Quote:
disgusting, false, nonsensical rhetoric.... disgusting, mindless, literally asinine and insane accusations
!
08-31-2012 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
disgusting, false, nonsensical rhetoric.... disgusting, mindless, literally asinine and insane accusations
Fact!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor
i disagreed. i insisted that anyone still looking to fault "israel" substantively for the continuation of the conflict (or even its initiation) must either

1) be so devoted to the anti-Israel narrative (even under the guise of being "balanced") that they were dismissive of any reality or uninterested in or that cannot lay blame for even the most remote mideast events squarely on Israel. (hater)
2) unable to comprehend them or properly weight their relevance and application (idiot), or
3) be simply unaware of fundamental relevant facts (ignorant)
As for the point above,it is Israel's fault for continuation of the conflict ,simply because It was Israel's choice,to create settlements beyond 67 lines in the first place,if Israel have chosen to keep the territories unaltered,the conflict could have been solved years ago.

Edit: What number am I fit in? Probably an Idiot.
08-31-2012 , 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor
Fascist doesn't mean what you think it means.

And my point was that North America and Europe have only a small subset of "the Jews" you claim to think are so great.



Lol. If you think Likud is an "extremist right wing" party you have literally zero understanding of the Israeli political landscape. Likud today is without a doubt to the left of even where Rabin was at the time of Oslo, but because some newspaper or op-ed or blog told you they are extremist, you repeat that as if it were true.

Ok, I'm done with you. You read a couple articles and now you think you're entitled to pontificate about who is good and bad and the cold, hard reality is that you know very little about the conflict.

I try to bring the facts - not "opinions" to light and you close your eyes and plug your ears. There's just no point.
When right-wing politics becomes your religion, you are a fascist. And that's what you are, a fanatic fascist. The Israelis state is your altar of worship. To you it is a universal truth that, reflexively, whatever Israel does is right and just and then it's time to justify those actions the best you can.

It's sad to see this has happened to people, that they feel the need to become what harmed them. Its pathetic that you have no idea how every other thing you say sounds like complete lunacy to any sane person observing the conflict.
08-31-2012 , 03:43 AM
Lol Good to see we have fanatical fascism in here.
08-31-2012 , 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
When right-wing politics becomes your religion, you are a fascist. And that's what you are, a fanatic fascist. The Israelis state is your altar of worship. To you it is a universal truth that, reflexively, whatever Israel does is right and just and then it's time to justify those actions the best you can.

It's sad to see this has happened to people, that they feel the need to become what harmed them. Its pathetic that you have no idea how every other thing you say sounds like complete lunacy to any sane person observing the conflict.
Eh,no, he is not the one sounds like a lunatic.

Also i'm willing to bet good money,that Gamblor is a defense lawyer.

Last edited by Hadis; 08-31-2012 at 04:51 AM.
08-31-2012 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
This is simply untrue. The Palestinians asked the UN for recognition on the 67 borders/line which only includes East Jerusalem.
And where is Temple Mount located again?
08-31-2012 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
And where is Temple Mount located again?
" The Palestinians and other Muslim parties won't go for any solution that doesn't give them control over Jerusalem"

This has been shown to be untruthful.
08-31-2012 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
" The Palestinians and other Muslim parties won't go for any solution that doesn't give them control over Jerusalem"

This has been shown to be untruthful.
Sorry, I thought you 'experts' would understand what I meant, which was obviously Old Jerusalem.
08-31-2012 , 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
When right-wing politics becomes your religion, you are a fascist. And that's what you are, a fanatic fascist. The Israelis state is your altar of worship. To you it is a universal truth that, reflexively, whatever Israel does is right and just and then it's time to justify those actions the best you can.

It's sad to see this has happened to people, that they feel the need to become what harmed them. Its pathetic that you have no idea how every other thing you say sounds like complete lunacy to any sane person observing the conflict.
Well the Israelis have yet to exterminate a few million Palestinians in ovens, so they're still treating them a hell of a lot better than they themselves were treated in Europe, just for the record.
08-31-2012 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
Sorry, I thought you 'experts' would understand what I meant, which was obviously Old Jerusalem.

You're still wrong !

"The Palestinian negotiators, in an effort to move forward on the hyper-sensitive issue of the holy sites in the Old City of Jerusalem, proposed a joint committee to administer the Temple Mount.

The offers were made in 2008, in the wake of the Annapolis conference, and were privately hailed by chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat as giving Israel “the biggest Yerushalayim [the Hebrew name for Jerusalem] in history.”"

That's from Haaretz. The issue is not the intractable "show stopper" you claim that it is.
08-31-2012 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
Well the Israelis have yet to exterminate a few million Palestinians in ovens, so they're still treating them a hell of a lot better than they themselves were treated in Europe, just for the record.
With ovens as the standard, there is no basis for criticizing Arab terrorism. For the record.
08-31-2012 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadis
Eh,no, he is not the one sounds like a lunatic.

Also i'm willing to bet good money,that Gamblor is a defense lawyer.
ha - but no, im a corporate and securities lawyer. i haven't been in a courtroom since stage/articling. (i did work in TLV for a year)

did you hear that? i think i just heard bill haywood split his brain

anyway, i'll get to your settlements post with primary sources (not some blog post from juan cole lololoolol) if you want later, busy day at work. if youre prepared to just take my word for it, here it is. by the way, ladies and gentlemen, that post was legitimate criticism of israel. it didn't presuppose legal conclusions, it didn't lie, it didn't twist logic and invert cause and effect.

the gist is that theres different perspectives you could look at that question.

are they legal? sort of. under international law, a conquering state (i.e. israel) regardless of the nature of the war is obligated to maintain the same law in territories as was there before they got there. jordanian law (based on ottoman law) was there before. there are different categories of land under the jordanian government - government owned land, government owned land leased to private citizens, and private land. jordanian government owned land transfers to israel government ownership. private land remains private. so settlers literally squatting on land are in fact illegal, but land that is legally israeli government's is up to them to decide. plus the last legally binding document governing that land is, as ShttsWeak pointed out, the San Remo Conference 1920.

of course the Levy Report says pretty much exactly that.

Despite Amnesty International's nonsense, heads of NAM states, and the rhetoric of politicians in various countries, it simply doesnt fit the definition of "occupation" and they simply aren't illegal.

So Israel is entitled to settle yehuda/shomron as long as they are not built on private land, which admittedly many of them are. The ones built on private land i have issues with. even migron. but lots of claims on private land aren't substantiated, and in part that's an israeli court system systemic problem, and in part because many of the claims have no validity. its hard and its complicated and this detail is not clear cut - unless you are a parrot for the Palestinian "cause". And I guess, in a sad way, the people with legitimate claims that are not being heard are suffering for the strategic, supremacist, genocidal failures of their past leaders.

The question of whether they are ethical is different. Remember that prior to the war of atzmaut, Jews lived throughout yesha for millenia. Before and during the 1948 war, thousands of jews were slaughtered and expelled from gush etzion, hevron, and the Arabs successfully kicked out or killed every last jew - until 1967. And now, that short 19 year period is the standard. I personally don't agree that its unethical to return to the area. but that's opinion.

As to whether we would have peace if they hadn't been built: well, was there peace before 1967? before we had the settlements? were we even close?

Settlement Timeline
In 1977, the Likud government rapidly expanded the settlement project, and months later, we made peace with Egypt. And we happily removed Yamit to make peace (which, as it turns out, may not be worth the paper its written on, but we'll see).

In 1994, we made peace with Jordan despite rapid growth in yesha.

Between 1992-1996, Jewish population in yesha grew 50%, but we still got Oslo signed.

2005: Hitnatkut. Obviously.

2010: Settlement freeze for 10 months. Obviously.

The settlements have nothing to do with peace.

So personally, i think the writing is on the wall: settlements have never been an obstacle to peace, and peace will come one day whether or not settlements are there.

So, assuming we're referring strictly to the legal ones: there are a few reasonable arguments against them: there are PR problems. some are in particularly sensitive locations and pretty provocative. the economic cost. But that's not how democracy and civil rights works. The voters speak. and the civil rights of the citizens of israel (if an arab israeli wants to move there he is entitled to) are more important than the blind hope that if we just go back to the 1949 borders the Palarabs will suddenly love us.

Last edited by Gamblor; 08-31-2012 at 01:55 PM.
08-31-2012 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor
are they legal? sort of. The Levy Report says pretty much exactly that.

Despite Amnesty International's nonsense, heads of NAM states, and the rhetoric of politicians in various countries, it simply doesnt fit the definition of "occupation" and they simply aren't illegal.
Well here's your link google translated from Hebrew.

"The committee's findings were published in mid-2012 in a paper entitled: Report on the status of construction in Judea and Samaria, known as Levy's report . The committee determined that the settlements in Judea and Samaria is also illegal under international law."
08-31-2012 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
Well here's your link google translated from Hebrew.

"The committee's findings were published in mid-2012 in a paper entitled: Report on the status of construction in Judea and Samaria, known as Levy's report . The committee determined that the settlements in Judea and Samaria is also illegal under international law."
It's something in the translation engine. The word חוקיות means "are legal"

The last sentence you are referring to:

הוועדה קבעה שההתנחלויות ביהודה ושומרון חוקיות גם על פי המשפט הבינלאומי

word by word:
ה-וועדה = Ha-va'ada = The-committee
קבעה = kiv'a = decided
ש-ה-התנחלויות = sheh-ha-hitnachluyot = that-the-settlements
ב-יהודה = =be-yehuda = in-Judea
ו-שומרון = ve-shomron = and-Samaria
חוקיות = chukiyot = legal (plural)
גם = gam = also
על פי = al pee = according to
ה-משפט = ha-mishpat = the-law
ה-בינלאומי = ha-binle'umi = the-international (le'umi = national; bin = between)

I don't know if you'll accept that as proof (and chances are you wont) but its the best i can offer.

As if you care, here is the report in the original Hebrew.

Here's an english translation of only the conclusions and recommendations

Last edited by Gamblor; 08-31-2012 at 03:10 PM.
08-31-2012 , 03:07 PM
@Gmablor that is a good post untill you find Ariel on the map,and try to figure out how,Palestine should look like.

Edit:Yeah, the Levy Report was Political/Legal commute that after some research decided that settlements are legal under international law,Google translate is malfunctioning.
08-31-2012 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadis
@Gmablor that is a good post untill you find Ariel on the map,and try to figure out how,Palestine should look like.

Edit:Yeah, the Levy Report was Political/Legal commute that after some research decided that settlements are legal under international law,Google translate is malfunctioning.
This is the next sentence in Gamblor's link. :

"The report is contrary to the earlier report issued by attorney Talia Sasson"

This is under Sasson's wiki entry :

"Sasson strongly opposes the existence of settlements in Judea and Samaria, which he called the essence of evil and cancer of the State of Israel."
08-31-2012 , 03:33 PM
I found this translation of the substance of the report on a blog. It looks accurate but I didnt read the whole thing word for word.

Before you read, understand that this is strictly the legal argument and ethical and peace-related questions are irrelevant only for legal purposes. if you want to raise ethical/peace objections, feel free and we can argue on that basis. but those objections don't make any of the settlements illegal.

starting page 6, section 5, para 2
Having considered the approaches presented before us, we think a reasonable interpretation of the standard term of "occupation", with all the obligations arising from it, in the provisions of international law is intended to apply for short periods of occupation of a territory of a sovereign state until the end of the conflict between the parties and the return of the land or any other negotiated agreement regarding it. But the Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria is significantly different: the possession of the territory continues for many decades, and no one can predict its end, if at all; the territory was conquered from a state (the Kingdom of Jordan) whose sovereignty over the territory has never been firmly legalized, and in the meantime it even renounced its claim of sovereignty; the State of Israel claims sovereign rights to the territory.

As for Article 49 of the Geneva Convention, many have interpreted it, but it seems the dominant view is that the article indeed was meant to resolve the harsh reality imposed by some states during the Second World War, when they expelled and forcibly transferred some of their inhabitants to the territories they had occupied, a process which was accompanied by a substantial worsening of the condition of the occupied population (see HCJ ruling 785/87 Abed Alaziz Alafu & others against Commander of IDF Forces in the Gaza Strip region and the article by Alan Baker – 'Distorting the Geneva Convention and Oslo Accords', January 2011)

This interpretation is supported by a number of sources: the authoritative interpretation of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), responsible for implementing the Fourth Geneva Convention, which states regarding the purpose of article 49 of the Convention:

Quote:
It is intended to prevent a practice adopted during the Second World War by certain Powers, which transferred portions of their own population to occupied territory for political and racial reasons or in order, as they claimed, to colonize those territories. Such transfers worsened the economic situation of the native population and endangered their separate existence as a race.
Lawyers Prof. Eugene Rostow, Dean of Yale Law School in the US, and Prof. Julius Stone confirmed that Article 49 is intended to prohibit the same inhuman acts committed by the Nazis, i.e. a massive transfer of people into the occupied territories for the purpose of extermination, slavery or colonization (American Journal of International Law, Vol 84, 1990, p. 719):
Quote:
[T]he Convention prohibits many of the inhumane practices of the Nazis and the Soviet Union during and before the Second World War - the mass transfer of people into and out of occupied territories for purposes of extermination, slave labor or colonization, for example....The Jewish settlers in the West Bank are most emphatically volunteers. They have not been "deported" or "transferred" to the area by the Government of Israel, and their movement involves none of the atrocious purposes or harmful effects on the existing population it is the goal of the Geneva Convention to prevent. (Rostow)

Irony would...be pushed to the absurdity of claiming that Article 49(6), designed to prevent repetition of Nazi-type genocidal policies of rendering Nazi metropolitan territories judenrein, has now come to mean that...the West Bank...must be made judenrein and must be so maintained, if necessary by the use of force by the government of Israel against its own inhabitants. Common sense as well as correct historical and functional context excludes so tyrannical a reading of Article 49(6.) (Julius Stone)
6. We do not believe that one can draw an analogy between this legal provision and those who sought to settle in Judea and Samaria not as a result of them being "deported" or "transferred" but because of their world view - to settle the Land of Israel. We did not ignore the view of those who think that one should interpret the Fourth Geneva Convention as also prohibiting the occupying state to encourage or support the transfer of parts of its population to the occupied territory, even if it did not initiate it. But even if this interpretation is correct, we would not change our conclusion that no analogy should be drawn between Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and Jewish settlement in Judea and Samaria, in light of the status of the territory under international law, and on that matter we will open with a brief historical overview.

7. On 2 November 1917 Lord James Balfour, the British foreign minister, issued a declaration that "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people", the document which was addressed to Lord Rothschild read:

Quote:
His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
In this declaration Britain recognized the Jewish people's right to the Land of Israel, and even expressed its willingness to advance a process that will eventually lead to the establishment of a national home for them in this part of the world. This declaration appeared, in a different version, in the declaration of the San Remo peace conference in Italy which laid the grounds for the Mandate for Palestine which acknowledged the Jewish people's historic connection to Palestine (see Preamble):
Quote:
The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country...
Recognition had thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
It should be emphasized here that in the Mandate (as well as in the Balfour Declaration) only the "civil and religious" rights of the inhabitants of Palestine are mentioned as subject to protection, but there is no mention of the national rights of the Arab people. And concerning the practical implementation of this declaration, article 2 of the Mandate says:
Quote:
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
And in article 6 of the Mandate it says:
Quote:
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews, on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
In August 1922 the League of Nations approved the Mandate which was given to Britain, and thus was decided, as a norm anchored in international law, the Jewish people's right to settle in the Land of Israel, their historic homeland, and to establish their state there.

To complete the picture, we will add that with the establishment of the United Nations in 1945, established in article 80 of its charter [is] the principle of recognizing the validity of existing rights of states acquired under various mandates, including of course the rights of Jews to settle in the Land of Israel by virtue of the above documents.
Quote:
Except as may be agreed upon in individual trusteeship agreements...nothing in this Chapter shall be construed in or of itself to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments to which Members of the United Nations may respectively be parties. (Article 80, paragraph 1, UN Charter)
8. In November 1947 the UN General Assembly adopted the recommendation of the committee it had established to divide the Land of Israel west of the Jordan river into two states: one Arab and one Jewish. But the plan was never implemented, and therefore was not binding under international law, since the Arab states rejected it and started a war to prevent its implementation and the establishment of a Jewish state. The outcome of the war set the political reality from now on: the Jewish state was established within the lines drawn after the war. However, an Arab state was not established, and the territories which had been conquered by Egypt and Jordan (the Gaza Strip, Judea and Samaria) were ruled by those countries. Later, the Arab states, which did not recognize the consequences of the war, demanded the armistice agreement include a statement saying that the cease-fire line should not be construed in any way as a political or territorial border. According to article II (2) of the armistice agreement with Jordan:
Quote:
no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims and positions of either Party hereto in the ultimate peaceful settlement of the Palestine question, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations.
According to article VI (9) of the agreement:
Quote:
The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.).
Despite that, in April 1950, Jordan annexed the area of Judea & Samaria, unlike Egypt, which has never claimed sovereignty over the Gaza Strip. However, Jordan's annexation was not accepted on any legal basis, and most Arab countries opposed it, until 1988 when Jordan renounced its claim to the territory (on this issue see chief justice M. Landau's comments in HCJ ruling 61/80 Haetzni against the State of Israel; and HCJ ruling 69/81, 493 Abu Aita against Commander of Judea & Samaria and others).

Thus the original legal status of the territory was restored, namely, a territory designated as a national home for the Jewish people, who had a "right of possession" to it during Jordanian rule while they were absent from the territory for several years due to a war imposed on them, and have now returned to it.

9. Alongside the international commitment to govern the territory and ensure the rights of the local population and public order, Israel therefore also had the full right to claim sovereignty over these territories, and all Israeli governments believed so, but they chose not to annex them and take a pragmatic approach in order to allow for peace negotiations with representatives of the Palestinian people and the Arab states. Israel therefore did not see itself as an occupying power in the classical sense of the word, and so never saw itself committed to the Fourth Geneva Convention in relation to Judea, Samaria and Gaza. It should be added here, that the Israeli government did indeed ratify the Convention in 1951, but since it was not adopted by the Knesset (on this issue see ruling 131/76 Kamiar against the State of Israel; and HCJ ruling 393/82 Jamat Iscaan against the Commander of IDF forces in Judea & Samaria) it merely issued a statement saying it will voluntarily implement the humanitarian provisions of the Convention (HCJ rulings 337/71 The Christian Association for Holy Places against the Minister of Defence; 256/72 The Jerusalem District Electricity Company Ltd against the Minister of Defence & others; 698/80 Qawasma & others against the Minister of Defence & others; 1661/05 Hof Azza Regional Council & others against Knesset Israel & others). As a result, Israel implemented a policy that allows Israelis to live voluntarily in the territory in accordance with rules set by the Israeli government and supervised by the Israeli legal system, while their continued presence is subject to the outcome of the negotiation process.

In light of the aforesaid, we have no doubt that from the perspective of international law, the establishment of Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria is legal, and therefore we can proceed to discussing this question from the perspective of domestic law.
08-31-2012 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor
In light of the aforesaid, we have no doubt that from the perspective of international law, the establishment of Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria is legal, and therefore we can proceed to discussing this question from the perspective of domestic law.
lol

Edit: would you care to summarize Talia Sasson's position while you at it?
08-31-2012 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
the territory was conquered from a state (the Kingdom of Jordan) whose sovereignty over the territory has never been firmly legalized, and in the meantime it even renounced its claim of sovereignty; the State of Israel claims sovereign rights to the territory.
Also this new to me,other source for that?
08-31-2012 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
This is the next sentence in Gamblor's link. :

"The report is contrary to the earlier report issued by attorney Talia Sasson"

This is under Sasson's wiki entry :

"Sasson strongly opposes the existence of settlements in Judea and Samaria, which he called the essence of evil and cancer of the State of Israel."
Did my own research actuality,Talia Sasson's report only address the settlements that are illegal under Israeli domestic law,different issue.
08-31-2012 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
This is the next sentence in Gamblor's link. :

"The report is contrary to the earlier report issued by attorney Talia Sasson"

This is under Sasson's wiki entry :

"Sasson strongly opposes the existence of settlements in Judea and Samaria, which he called the essence of evil and cancer of the State of Israel."
Right, it is just as evil as, say, the Sioux having the audacity to build a settlement in, say, South Dakota.
08-31-2012 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
Right, it is just as evil as, say, the Sioux having the audacity to build a settlement in, say, South Dakota.
Mordecai Noah did try for a Jewish homeland on Grand Island but the Americans opposed that. He claimed that the Native American Indians were descended from the lost tribes of Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordecai_Manuel_Noah

      
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