I know it borders Egypt, but Egypt closing its border is not a blockade. Israel closing its border isn't either. Maybe both moves suck, but they aren't blockades. Israel destroying the airport and intercepting and regulating all shipping is a blockade.

Egypt's failure to have an open border with Israel in 1966 wasn't a blockade either, but closing the Straits of Tiran in 1967 was.

It's not that there's a Hamas. It's that there's a Hamas in the throes of a fever-dream and they won't wake up.

This guy wouldn't agree with you.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...265746,00.html

The world should push for a one state solution, with Israel absorbing the little bits that they don't effectively control. It will happen eventually anyway. Let's end the suffering.

It was a simple question. I was curious what people felt about the Egyptian blockade. Without any mention of Israel.

I am pro-Israel, but of course I don’t agree with everything they do. That said, blaming this whole conflict on them, or saying this was a “peaceful protest”, is ignorance at best, straight-up hatred of Israel/Jews at worst.

Like I said, it's not really a blockade for Egypt to close its border. Maybe it would be if Gaza had no alternative, but they have a sea port. This ignores the history of Gaza for sure to pretend it's now an independent country, but it has no shot at acting like a country if it's air and sea access, even the right of Gazans to leave the area, are blocked by Israel. Egypt doesn't do that as far as I know.

The response was out of proportion and I think meant not just to repel people but to instill fear and as collective punishment, but no, the protest was not entirely peaceful. I think focusing on the individual acts of either Israel or Hamas though is bad. It ignores the causes and plays into the hands of those who characterize the problem as a tit-for-tat cycle of violence which can never be resolved.

I agree with most of your comments.

The protest not being peaceful and Israel using excessive force aren’t mutually exclusive statements. People who are absolute in assigning blame here simply aren’t open minded. There’s plenty both sides could (and should) do.

A couple of posters here are blatantly anti-semetic though. Which is fine, but hiding behind an anti-Israel guise is disingenuous.

Don't be pedantic. The point is that there is deep suffering. You didn't like the chart, but were provided two articles on other aspects of the humanitarian disaster.

Percent Israel's fault? Well, the acres and acres of flattened homes were not blown up by Hamas. Nor does Hamas block imports, exports, or shoot-up fishing boats.


Proving Hamas causes poverty is your argument.



This comes up like clockwork. Quotes or it didn't happen.

The foreign aisle $$ isn’t spent on education or improving the Palestinian lives. It’s spent on weapons and tunnels and ways to attack Israel. So yeah, Hamas plays a huge part in the poverty.

I’m fairly confident you’re an anti-Semite. Possibly just anti-Israel. Just my opinion.

Bad read imo. There a couple people I think are anti-semitic itt recently. One is very pro-Israel and one is very anti. Some much more obvious anti-semites used to pop through and eventually get banned.

That’s fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Read on Hamas spending millions upon millions on weapons and tunnels?? Let me guess...also Israel’s fault.

Asking me? Am I an antisemite if I say yes?

Not specially, but fault spreads pretty broadly and is a mostly a distraction or diversion here. The general state of affairs is largely Israel's responsibility at least as long as they blockade Gaza and launch large bombing campaigns every ten years or so.

Israel would also be better off and maybe not have such a terrible housing problem if their government didn't spend so much money on the military.

Not asking you.

I mean look, you have an opinion that’s plenty reasonable, I just happen not to agree with it. You do seem to be fair and composed at least, which is all that can be asked for.

I'm fairly confident you violate nanny goats on the hour. Just my opinion, no evidence or rationale.

I have (unfortunately) read plenty of your posts. I get that you “stand up for the little guy” but my sense is there’s more to it. Short of you explicitly stating “I am anti-Israel/Jews, you can rationalize anything you say.

How many nanny goat posts have I made??

Do I have to do everything?

Here's how to run the antisemite accusation in this case.

Argue that rejecting a Jewish state is inherently antisemitic when everyone else gets a state. Then I'll say that citizenship should be established by residency in the polity, not ethnicity. It would be just as objectionable for the US to limit immigration to European Christians, and that you are arguing from definition rather than demonstrating animus toward Jewish individuals.

Was that so hard?


Since there isn't really an answer to argument by definition, I have proven your point for you. Now it's your turn about the goats.

my read is that gs is a mouthbreather

How about addressing Hamas spending their foreign aid to attack Israel instead of bettering
the Palestinian lives? Afraid you may have to actually admit Hamas is also at fault? What terrible thing that would be...

Also, just out of curiosity, have you ever been to Israel?

directed at all the pro Hamas arguments in the thread. 'Gaza's probably not that bad' lmao great take

Not my take at all. Reading comprehension is hard.

+1

And it's usually the anti-semites who like to call people bigots for hating on people who think gay people should be locked up/executed amongst other extreme right wing ideas.
Although what ive experienced here the last week or so I wouldn't say that's the case here, although I do think people throw the word bigot around to easily.

There are things we know definitively either because the historical record is without reproach, or because one of the 2 sides has already owned up to it. I'll split this into 2 posts, and it'll be all I say on this.

We know that the Palestinians (lead by Egyptian-born Arafat) turned down deals that would have given their people unquestionably a better life than they have today. There is simply no world in which Camp David wasn't a gateway to a better life for all. For those of you unfamiliar with what happened with Camp David, I recommend this. Longer read but a lot of meat on the bone. http://www.hnlr.org/wp-content/uploa...al-Paper-1.pdf

Now all youtube video title aside, I've not been able to fact-check/correct any quote or historical event in here. If you are able to, feel free to dm me what. I've talked with historians and never found a mistake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7By...26908412952674

The purpose of linking to that is to establish how we got here since the early 1900's. Now we could go all kinds of tangents from there. WW1 and WW2 and numerous other wars formed many of the borders we all recognize today. Somehow the Arab-Israeli wars of 47-49, 58, 67 and onwards don't count towards border creation through conflict, which I still have never received an explanation for. If you want to say that right of conquest is no longer a thing, I agree. But that's only if you're an aggressor (Russia, Iraq). In those wars I listed, Israel was attacked, not the other way around. But I do find it amazing when Americans and Canadians, living on stolen native land, cry about returning land. bros, you took almost ALL of yours. You're also ex-colonies that got divided up... The death counts in the senseless wars like Iraq and Vietnam completely dwarf this conflict too btw. But I digress.

We also know the Egyptians are part of the blockade of Gaza. After the PA killed 31 at that side, the Egyptians promptly flooded that side, making sure the Palestinians could get no aid from that side either. Nobody talks about that.

The final thing this post will end on is this:

The Palestinians will always be, and have always been pawns mostly for Iran and Syria. The USA (and on their side you have Israel, the Saudies, Wahabi/sunni etc...) has long since overstepped their reach in the mid-east, we know this. Russia in turn has looked to balance their influence there (Russia + Iran Syria + Lebanon, and the Shia). The existence of the Palestinians allows for perpetual disruption of the USA side of things. You have a perfect launching pad for attacks on your enemies, right at the doorstep. And this is precisely how it plays out with the rocket attacks (From Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, etc...). So you have what I consider to be a pretty big victim in the average Palestinian, where the highest paying job in Gaza is to be a martyr. You literally can provide for your family from it. As long as the Palestinians don't elect a government that's actually looking to the best interest of the citizens, they'll continue to be sent to slaughter on behalf of Iran and others.

That's part 1, I'll give you part 2 on what's happening now.

I think that characterization is ok for a significant part of the Israeli population and for a significant period of time, but moving 700000 settlers into the WB just makes the intentions of the faction that have led Israel for a while now crystal clear. It's just as it was when England sent people to North America or when the US sent people west.