Seriously, you need to read what you reply to.

There's no excuse for you to reply twice that had nothing to do with Mason doing anything inexcusable.

LOL. who said anything about threatening to ban people or shut down the entire platform?


If I have zero interest in participating in the forum, that is completely up to me. If others want to participate, that is up to them. I consider participating in the politics forum a waste of time. Others don't. LOL. Good for them.

And careful with that intellectually honest accusation, that applies to a vast majority of the posters in the politics forum. There is a reason that political discussion is barred from several of the other popular forums on two plus two.

People here criticize Obama all the ****ing time, both for policy (drones, surveillance, immigration, etc) and political decisions (not realizing GOP would never deal with him in good faith, handling of Russian interference knowledge). If Trump is worth defending then it makes sense to do it somewhere he needs it, i.e. to a left-leaning crowd, so feel free to stick around. I'm sure we'll be very enlightened.

Exactly, I have dismissed Obama as a chump ever since it became clear that he wasn't born in Kenya. Thanks Trump.

I think OOT has in its bylaws that only intellectually honest debate is allowed.

Conservatives wanting their ideas basically to be a protected class is always hilarious.

It's not great to have this thread (and the one in ATF) be a place where large swaths of the forum members can be besmirched en masse with no support or examples. If a bunch of the accused posters then call for such support of the accusation, they are thenrisk being accused of dog-pile attacking (e.g., NewOldGuy).

It would hurt content, user experience, and profits to wind up banning all the posters site-wide that could not survive with politics forum type rules and enforcement?

Not sure an NVG Incel Discussion Thread would be a great idea tbh

For real. If a no personal attack/no snark rule was enforced strongly across the site this whole place would be a ghost town in like 3 days.

Hey enforce that everywhere and you’d have your rapture.

I mean what is this bull**** about snark being a sin. I enjoy giving, receiving and reading it. I hate to invoke these images at all, but are we asking for a safe space? All social media, tv, and real life has snark. Why on earth are we asking for a single forum regarding politics to be artificially free of a very normal and mostly understood culturally accepted form of communication? It’s a mild irritant at worst. Give it up. This is the definition of lolsafe space creation and surprise, surprise...look which side is asking for it.

Some of it is just sort of innate to the fact that everybody online is always writing for an audience. Even PMs and such have something like an implied audience, I think. So some of the snark comes from playing to a half-imagined crowd. Some of it comes from the desire to entertain yourself, too. I find it very boring to write straight refutations with no humour or colour at all. I can do it, but it's tedious, and I don't think tedium is the idea with message boards.

Some people react far worse to humorous contradiction/refutation than to overtly hostile contradiction/refutation. Because hostility is almost expected online, and again because of 'the audience', there's a performative aspect to the hostility you encounter that declaws it somewhat. Whereas a reply that appears to express genuine amusement might actually sting. So there've been times, here and elsewhere on 2+2, when I've had people react very badly to posts that I would have honestly said were perfectly civil, albeit poking fun at the ideas and positions the other person had expressed.

But this is all a long way of saying 'some people are very thin-skinned' and it's been made as clear as it can be that that's not being accepted as an explanation.

Are you saying your original claim about goofy being a mod wasn't that he could personally infract you, but that he'd be able to tag you with points indirectly through some secret mod backchannel?

There is no collusion. This is a witch hunt! Goofy and Wookie only discussed adoptions.

True. I guess I'd like to put a finer point on it and ask why it is even being floated as one of the major issues here, though? That clearly was not brought up by Mason...one of the first things he did in his thread about the state of things that need to be changed was nuke a poster who suggested a new place to meet if this one is shut down with a snarky quip about "why don't you go there now" or something. I don't think the narrative that snarky responses are supposed to be policed are anything but a gaslighting goalposts shift of what is acceptable. An Overton window shove. It doesn't deserve consideration but it is starting to be accepted as an actual issue.

That's a good point. While we're being tightly moderated (which is fine to a point) there's people running around 2p2 launching broad brush attacks against the people who post here. They should be happy since that's the "debate" they're really interested in: letting us argue over M4A or single payer while they get to say that, actually, we're the real fascists.

I'm not going to push back on this. You have a valid point that I don't necessarily disagree with completely. But part of me feels the way I do and I was aware of the context before I made my posts. So I said what I said and laid out the reasoning.

Mason did this, sorry if that was unclear.

Again, if you argue without intellectual honesty, you don't have an argument at all. We are discussing you. Your post. You referred to this forum as a left wing echo chamber full of "Trump bad, Obama good" types. That is patently false and I stated why.

It is not my problem you refuse to directly address your own post and my response to it. Pointing out that other posters may also be intellectually dishonest does not change the merits of your behavior.

Doesnt seem like most of the critics read the forum. At least not closely.

+1

There is no "left" in the US. There is a centre right party, called the "Democrats", and a bat**** insane, far-right, fundamentalist Christian, science-denying, mysoginist, xenophobic, racist, propaganda-issuing, election-rigging, anti-intellectual, conspiracy-theory peddling party called "Republicans". Maybe it was different in days gone by, but that is what it is now, under trump.

This is not a "left vs right" debate. It's a "moderate vs bigots & insane people" debate. When one side refuses to acknowledge things like facts and evidence, it ceases to be a debate.

For what it's worth, I've been a lurker here for a few years, and if anything, anyone who still supports the republican party has been treated way too kindly.

The problem is not in this forum. The problem is in America.

kinda. it is not a secret backchannel. but that goofy, other mods with his same political views, and who are online "friends" with goofy will harass and give out infractions in other forums after they identify you as someone that they do not like because of your political identification and posts in the politics forum

venice specifically gave me an infraction in the LLSNL forum because of my posts in politics right in the middle of the 2016 pres campaign.

I quit posting in politics and have not even had a warning since then.

I used to get infractions like clockwork in all the different forums until I stopped posting in politics.

I really could care less. The debate is the politics forums is just ideological based mudslinging and really only suited for those who like being intellectually dishonest and feeling like they are "winning" because of rhetorical tools while ignoring the facts.

lol. really? so regarding the facts in the hillary clinton possession and illegal handling of classified documents, how come she wasn't indicted?

You really could (and probably should).

Um no, he gave you a 10 point deserved infraction for starting a troll thread in LLSNL. Venice doesn't even post about politics, not sure how you make that connection at all.

Her emails!!!

Because she didn't do anything illegal.