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01-27-2019 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Hi jman:

When I put my original post up about this issue, I was immediately challenged by Catface, that was not acceptable and he got banned. I did, however, say that I would be willing to talk to him. So, if he wants to call our office i’ll talk to him and take it from there. If i’m not in our office he can leave his number and i’ll call him back.

Best wishes,
Mason
This is a joke, right?

Honestly, I've never heard of any admin ever doing this. I (and probably everybody else here) would rather eat our own **** than call somebody and beg to be unbanned from an internet forum. I mean, is there any precedent for you making this a requirement for getting unbanned? If so, has anybody actually done it before? If not, why make it a requirement specifically for catface?
01-27-2019 , 07:23 PM
Customer service 101. We all know you have to use an overwhelming show of force upon the first challenge, regardless of scale, when discussing policy changes. They will never respect you otherwise.

Oh wait. No that is shanking someone your first day on the yard in prison.
01-27-2019 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
This is a joke, right?

Honestly, I've never heard of any admin ever doing this. I (and probably everybody else here) would rather eat our own **** than call somebody and beg to be unbanned from an internet forum. I mean, is there any precedent for you making this a requirement for getting unbanned? If so, has anybody actually done it before? If not, why make it a requirement specifically for catface?
Not sure if anybody has ever taken him up on it, but it's definitely not the first time it's been suggested.
01-27-2019 , 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
This is a joke, right?

Honestly, I've never heard of any admin ever doing this. I (and probably everybody else here) would rather eat our own **** than call somebody and beg to be unbanned from an internet forum. I mean, is there any precedent for you making this a requirement for getting unbanned? If so, has anybody actually done it before? If not, why make it a requirement specifically for catface?
uh yeah I admin a web game with 10k hits per day and 6k people on our Discord server and every single time some douchenozzle DMs me complaining about being banned or whatever I tell him to talk to the moderators. I have not once stepped in personally. There's rules I made (similar to ones here) that my mods follow and it runs itself. I would never even consider this sort of thing.
01-27-2019 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grue
uh yeah I admin a web game with 10k hits per day and 6k people on our Discord server and every single time some douchenozzle DMs me complaining about being banned or whatever I tell him to talk to the moderators. I have not once stepped in personally. There's rules I made (similar to ones here) that my mods follow and it runs itself. I would never even consider this sort of thing.
I used to admin a sci-fi/fantasy forum and in my years there, the idea of having banned forum members personally contact me to become unbanned never crossed my mind. I mean why would I want to talk to somebody who wreaked havoc on a forum I run? More importantly, why would I willingly give my personal information to a complete stranger to exploit should they choose to do so?
01-27-2019 , 08:20 PM
RIP SUB
01-27-2019 , 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
I used to admin a sci-fi/fantasy forum and in my years there, the idea of having banned forum members personally contact me to become unbanned never crossed my mind. I mean why would I want to talk to somebody who wreaked havoc on a forum I run? More importantly, why would I willingly give my personal information to a complete stranger to exploit should they choose to do so?
In Mason's defense, the guy in his 60s and the internet didn't engineer his etiquette as much as it did you or I.
01-27-2019 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
You are correct. It was wil1530 who was banned for such a post.


Is wil still banned as well?
01-27-2019 , 08:47 PM
No
01-27-2019 , 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
RIP SUB
Gosh I hope not. I'm no bad boy here. I think once I got some yellow card or something like that for using profanity in a post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
In Mason's defense, the guy in his 60s and the internet didn't engineer his etiquette as much as it did you or I.
This is a good point.
01-27-2019 , 09:07 PM
Also to be fair, I know it sounds weird now, but like 30 years ago people used to use telephones to communicate with each other by having conversations using their voice. Ir does seem kind of quaint now.
01-27-2019 , 09:08 PM
People still do that with skype and facetime.
01-27-2019 , 09:08 PM
Politics is, and has always been fine from most of our perspectives. The only people whining has always been one certain type of poster. There have been slightly less insults lately as everyone is on thin ice here. Being more polite to an extent is not a bad thing though.

The ironic thing is that in fact Politics is one of your best subforums here and it is not close.

I wish you nothing with the best with your new African American friend who does not like Trump. Hopefully you can have mutually beneficial conversation and it will give both of you greater and more accurate perspective on the world.
01-27-2019 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
I used to admin a sci-fi/fantasy forum and in my years there, the idea of having banned forum members personally contact me to become unbanned never crossed my mind. I mean why would I want to talk to somebody who wreaked havoc on a forum I run? More importantly, why would I willingly give my personal information to a complete stranger to exploit should they choose to do so?
So your saying “Catface don’t do it! ITS a TARP!”
01-27-2019 , 09:48 PM
Can you guys please stop getting in digs at tptb?
01-28-2019 , 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
I disagree with jman's characterization of the ATF thread in the instance of the Nazi salute issue.

Juan Valdez was completely schooling Jman that actual racism against white kids was acceptable to the forum and moderators and that perceived racism of 14 year olds white kids was not. Jman then claimed JV was a Nazi apologist because he handwaved the 14 years olds salute as possibly not reflecting any Nazi-like beliefs. JV pounced on him again and Jman then comically posted his one sided mischaracterized version of events in the political forum, knowing full well that JV was banned there and could not respond.

He continues touting with his favorable version in here was well. In fact, he has now doubled down in here and is comparing what happened in ATF to anti-Semitic behavior 11 years ago that justified shutting down a thread. All because JV argued and proved that Jman condones racist comments in some contexts but not others.

I agree with chezlaw's take but would add that the political moderation remains extremely one-sided and both moderators have giant blind spots created by their own political beliefs and, as outlined above, agenda(s) to "win" their own political debates. I think Jman's conduct is a prime example of why the forum is an echo chamber and why the regs regularly go on the attack without a concern they will be banned.

All in all, there is no reason to shut down the forum as a hate group but it needs more work if you don't want it to be an echo chamber.

You're lying. The bolded didn't happen. Stop lying.

Last edited by 6ix; 01-28-2019 at 05:24 AM.
01-28-2019 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
In Mason's defense, the guy in his 60s and the internet didn't engineer his etiquette as much as it did you or I.
That's not an excuse.
01-28-2019 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDawg
That's not an excuse.

Look at what I replied to and the context.
01-29-2019 , 11:14 AM
I like this forum, mainly because politics doesn't belong at the poker table, this is a good place for it. Politics=bad poker game.
01-30-2019 , 04:18 PM
Old politics:



New and improved politics:

01-31-2019 , 02:19 AM
I almost completely stopped participating in the politics forum. It is populated with a cult like devotion to,"Trump bad obama good." Not that Trump is any political genius or that he is worth defending, but it is just a waste of time to debate with others who have zero interest in the dialectic. Moreover, wookie and goofy are still mods, so the risk of collecting infractions for committing the same acts of trolling that others in the forum go unpunished for is annoying. The forum is simply an echo chamber that has almost zero value in regards to new information or interesting opinions. But thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback.

Cheers.
01-31-2019 , 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
Moreover, wookie and goofy are still mods, so the risk of collecting infractions for committing the same acts of trolling that others in the forum go unpunished for is annoying.
I am not and have never been a moderator of the politics forum. Thank you for showing, via your ignorance, how much your criticism is worth.
01-31-2019 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I am not and have never been a moderator of the politics forum. Thank you for showing, via your ignorance, how much your criticism is worth.

quite true. but as a mod of other fourms don't you have the ability to direct message and coordinate with the mods of the politics forum more efficiently?

but really, who cares? The politics forum is silly at best.
01-31-2019 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
I almost completely stopped participating in the politics forum. It is populated with a cult like devotion to,"Trump bad obama good." Not that Trump is any political genius or that he is worth defending, but it is just a waste of time to debate with others who have zero interest in the dialectic. Moreover, wookie and goofy are still mods, so the risk of collecting infractions for committing the same acts of trolling that others in the forum go unpunished for is annoying. The forum is simply an echo chamber that has almost zero value in regards to new information or interesting opinions. But thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback.

Cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
The extent to which this forum is an echo chamber is correlated with the extent to which the GOP is an extremist party doing abhorrent things and its fervent supporters are detached from reality.

Ask questions like...

Is family separation okay?

Is voter ID a good thing?

Were there fine people on both sides in Charlottesville?

Does Trump lie a lot?

Is banning Muslims from entering the country cool?

But what about all the illegals getting free Medicaid without paying taxes?

Aren't you worried about this new caravan coming?

Yeah, we're going to be an echo chamber on those because the answers are pretty obvious to the vast majority of intelligent, critical thinkers.

On the other hand if you ask questions like...

What's the best solution on healthcare and why?

What are the best marginal tax rates and tax brackets?

What would your ideal gun policy be?

Should we balance the budget?

Should Democrats compromise on issue X and why?

You'll find that the regs have views that don't totally align, and during normal political times would be discussed and debated more.

Unfortunately we're living through some dark times with some awful things being done, and this is creating more alignment between center-right, center-left and left-wingers. Those remaining on the right don't necessarily notice the difference, and just think anything entirely left of today's GOP is a far left echo chamber.

The other important point here, which I don't think Mason addressed despite requests for examples, is that there is a big difference in telling someone defending racism that they're a horrible person and telling someone who disagrees on other issues the same thing.

Likewise there's a difference in telling someone honestly looking for discussion to pound sand, and telling someone who is repeatedly arguing in bad faith or being willfully ignorant of facts to do the same.

There are certainly instances of all four examples, but if we allow that telling off a racist or someone arguing in bad faith is not a problem, tweaking some modding/policies should take care of the rest.

Throw out a few temp bans and give obvious trolls less rope before they're tossed. I would also propose requiring people to respond to valid counterarguments/questions IF they respond to a post. Often what leads to name calling and vitriol is a poster engaging in debate only to repeatedly respond without addressing any of the points that they know are losers for them or that they can't refute, while pretending they don't even exist and throwing out some other garbage arguments.

They often get mocked for this, which honestly seems fair (to a degree), since it's a form of trolling.

While some regs encourage the forum to just completely ignore them, the knowledge that we have a lot of lurkers who are perhaps trying to form opinions and decide where they stand makes me more inclined to respond.
Any thoughts on this post by cuse?
01-31-2019 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
I almost completely stopped participating in the politics forum. It is populated with a cult like devotion to,"Trump bad obama good." Not that Trump is any political genius or that he is worth defending, but it is just a waste of time to debate with others who have zero interest in the dialectic. Moreover, wookie and goofy are still mods, so the risk of collecting infractions for committing the same acts of trolling that others in the forum go unpunished for is annoying. The forum is simply an echo chamber that has almost zero value in regards to new information or interesting opinions. But thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback.

Cheers.
Posters like this are why people say things like "reality has a liberal bias"

It's a nonsense phrase. Reality is reality. There is no liberal or conservative bias in the real world truth of things. It just is

The reason the phrase exists is because that's a reflection of the state of American politics. The right wing is FUBAR, the centrist Dem is now jokingly called a Republican, and "radical" views like UHC are demonized as socialist, which is a dirty word for no other reason than people who think this subforum is an echo chamber, "Trump bad Obama good", monolithic group when really it's just a large number of people ranging left, Independent, and center right calling out right wing and conservative disingenuous discourse for their bull****

And Paul D, this is why I say "no excuse". While I do feel that there has been some marked improvement in the forum in general, there are some things I still do not like, and the bottom line is Mason only put forth "the changes" because his view is similar to that of PFunk's. It's cool that Mason supports the free flow and exchange of ideas, but choosing not to participate in a politics forum or threatening to ban people or shut down the entire platform because you get directly criticized and refuse to directly address flaws in your own arguments are the antithesis of fluidity given to all viewpoints.

If you can't argue with intellectual honesty, then you don't have an argument to begin with.

      
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