Quote:
Originally Posted by 27AllIn
How would UBI work exactly? Is it paid to children/teens too, or only adults? How much money should be paid per year? Is there still going to be universal healthcare? What are the tax rates to pay for this?
Details are important, but i think we have most of the big stuff worked out already (we = people who promote UBI).
So
1) yes universal healthcare would still be a thing
2) yes every single citizen will be an UBI recipient (see later though for household unit $amount correction), this includes bill gates, babies, everyone. See later for what is "citizen" in this definition.
3) Enough money to be over absolute poverty levels in a normal area of the country. See later for details
4) some additional gvmnt revenue will almost certainly be needed, but far less than what most people think, see later as for why.
Regarding recipients:
Minors will get an UBI, but the idea is that poverty levels aren't indipendent of household size. you are poorer with 10k income alone, than is a household of 3 people with 30k income. Because there are economies of scale (mostly about housing, but something also about transportation, food and so on). Preparing a dinner for 4 usually costs a little less than 4x a dinner for one.
So you will have a decreasing multiplier of UBI given household size. Like if ubi is 10k per year, then it's 17-18 for 2, 22-23 for 3, the exact details depend on econometrics.
One of the most contentious parts of implementing an UBI (at least in europe) is about when/if to give it to immigrants. Some political decision has to be taken in order to decide when an immigrant gains access to UBI.
Regarding the UBI amount:
Absolute poverty is the parameter to fix. Definitions can vary slightly but it's about basic survival. And not in manhattan but in "middle america". Definition of the area can change (can be median , or bottom 60% or bottom 75%), still that's the idea. You can go check definitions and numbers for absolute poverty in various areas to get a feeling of the amount.
Regarding how much money the gvmnt needs:
Total UBI expense will be enormous BUT for many (most?) households it will be a wash through increased taxation. But that's not extra taxation.
Ubi will concur to income and we will start taxing the first eur or $ of income that goes on top of UBI. And ofc we will need to add imputed rent as income.
Like, if you have a house you live in, that's income, in the amount of market rent of that house, and you get taxed on that. But that's not extra taxes for most, as you get the ubi that payes for that tax.
Also you are removing all other forms of welfare except healthcare, to pay for the ubi. All those distorsive mean-tested benefit, with their bureaucracies, will be eliminated togheter with ubi implementation.
Remember that you need to check the net cost of UBI, not the gross useless number. Can't say "wait it's 300M people so we need X trillions in extra taxes where X is 300m * UBI amount", because those are offsetting amounts for most households.
So an household with 30k in income today, and a house they live in, will receive , say, 20k more from ubi and pay, say 15-18k "more taxes" but you haven't increased taxes for them.
If you think of an UBI as a negative tax it's even easier.
At the end most estimates are in the 2-3-4% of GDP ballpark, in extra taxes, for the USA, and can be revenue neutral in most of europe (in the "effective tax" sense)