Because South Carolina is and was a sovereign entity and Ft Sumter is not, fly.

not sure if your 2nd point was addressed to me, but I was not one of those people.

Is no one going to answer this question? This thread reminds me of the glen beck episode of south park. Are all libertarians racist? What should we the non racist sensible people do about all these disgusting racist freaks on the internet? They might think slavery is ok I don't know but that sounds pretty racist to me (if it's true). Remember I'm just asking questions. Why do the racists refuse to admit it (if they are)?

We already went over this. Any post answering this question is getting reported and we're going to spend another 50 posts with libertarians commiserating with each other about how terrible it is that people are allowed to say mean things on the internet. Won't somebody think of the children? Typical lefty mods! ETC!

Another fantastic non answer. Will you PM me your list to avoid the inevitable infractions?

tomdemaine has so totally pwned the hijacking it's scary.

A+ CHEERLEADING THERE SPORT

ISN'T IT ANNOYING AND RIDICULOUS?

Anyway, tom, I'm not going to PM you about whether or not I(a random idiot on the internet) think other random idiots on the internet are racist, because I just don't care. People(well, besides Borodog lol) don't post links to Borodog posts as support for philosphical positions, nobody tells people who ask where they can learn more about libertarianism to visit montius.org, etc.

I care. It bothers me that people who's opinions and intelligence I respect (dvaut and elliot) or even random trolling douches (you and daxx) may think that I or my friends (lol internet friends get a life) could be racist. I know, lol it's the internet grow a thick skin or whatever but I genuinely deep down believe in voluntarism and real equality for all and I'm pretty sure the others on this board do too.

FWIW I don't think you're a racist.

fly,

I know I don't post that often, but do you think I'm racist?

3 good posts in my entire history, and they're all in this thread.

I don't think you in particular are racist, nor do I think that about most posters ITT. I do think you, meaning many of the people here and not you specifically, have a really bad tendency to take whatever comes out of Mises, LR, etc. at face value when all of their scholarship is tainted at best. Before anyone else says that this is unwarranted, there are shades of gray; I ignore Peter Singer's views on animal rights because his views on human rights are appalling and the two come out of the same place, but I do not ignore Chomsky's work in linguistics, a completely different field, just because he happens to be a walking strawman generator on foreign affairs.

In this particular case, however, everyone in the Mises branch, as opposed to Cato or Buckley, have almost made it a point to dogwhistle in every piece of writing they've ever put out. When I know part of their motivation is to create white only suburbs complete with statues of Forrest before "the animals take over the DC zoo", and when I further know that the leading light of that branch (Rothbard) presupposes child slave markets as a necessary evil of a libertarian utopia, I can't take their views on economics seriously. Since I don't believe that child slave markets and statues to KKK leaders should be part of a utopian vision, I can't help but feel that these guys' "in a perfect world" economic theories may not be quite as good as advertised.

Fly,

While we're at it, do you think you could list all of my biases?

adanthar,

That's rough dude. I am sorry that it scared you that someone's vision of something they can't actually predict scared you away from logistically analyzing their arguments.

I think I've read enough of your posts to list a couple

could you name who you do think is racist, and who (specifically) takes "whatever comes out of mises LR etc at face value"?

I think you mean "logically".

This is ridiculous.

First, no one believes in a "libertarian utopia." I've never ever spoken with a voluntaryist/ACist who believes in "utopia" at all. Your "perfect world" argument, thus, is a complete straw-man... unless of course you honestly believe the government will eventually reach perfection and we will live in a statist utopia and that is what you are holding voluntaryism up to in comparison.

Second, you characterization of mises.org/etc's. racism is an extreme exaggeration. In this thread there have been a handful of pseudo-racist or possibly could be misconstrued as racist examples. Mises and LRC are posting like a dozen plus new items a day. Mises.org has a vast free online library with, afaik, 0 content that has ever been questioned (as derogatory).

That's incorrect. Of course, I've logically (not logistically) analyzed their arguments; I'm pretty sure I've now read more Rothbard than pvn ever has, if only for the comedy. But by their own admission, their arguments lead to a large number of unacceptable outcomes even when perfectly implemented. In addition, their motivations are often obscene. Nor is Mises the only source of libertarian thought, if I were so inclined. So what's the point?

Not even close to an extreme exaggeration. It's a fact.

Quite correct, looks like he's got the point.

Just in time, too. I have a secret policy of permabanning people who get to 10k posts without any good ones.