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Here we go again... (unarmed black teen shot by cop): Shootings in LA and MN Here we go again... (unarmed black teen shot by cop): Shootings in LA and MN

05-28-2015 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGambool
How did the person on crutches in Wookie's link do "dumb ass ****"?
Did I say every case? Or did I say the majority? It's obvious you are simply trying to annoy me by bringing up these stupid side arguments. I specifically said the majority to head off a post like this, but I guess there just is no getting away from your stupidity. Really, don't you have anything better to do?
05-28-2015 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
When did I say people "deserve" abuse? People don't deserved to be abused by the police. The issue is that too many people don't take these encounters seriously, or think about how they are putting themselves into a very dangerous situation. We know how police react to confrontations in this country - very badly. Any time you are in a situation that involve police, you should act accordingly. Doing dumb ass **** like resisting arrest or telling police what they should be doing is simply stupid and extremely dangerous.

I don't see how my viewpoint is so controversial.
If you agree that black people know that they are more likely to be abused and you think that the vast majority of abuse is because the victims did something dumb, you are arguing that black people are tremendously and unchangeably more stupid than white people.
05-28-2015 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
If you agree that black people know that they are more likely to be abused and you think that the vast majority of abuse is because the victims did something dumb, you are arguing that black people are tremendously and unchangeably more stupid than white people.
I've never argued that or implied that.
05-28-2015 , 06:30 PM
Wil,

This is you arguing exactly that black people are more likely to be abused, and it's because they act worse to police than whites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidercrab
Wil,
Do you agree or disagree with what Wookie said here? Which option best characterizes your view:

A) A black person, on average, is likely to be treated worse by a police officer than an otherwise-identical white person in the same situation.

B) A black person, on average, is likely to be treated worse by a police officer than a white person, but it's basically due to correlated "legitimate" factors like demeanor, offense severity, prior record (which may in turn be driven by factors like education, poverty, etc.)

C) Black people and white people receive the same treatment from police.

D, I guess to be fair) Black people receive better treatment from the police than white people.

It's hard to tell what you're actually arguing here. My best interpretation of what you're saying is that yes (A) is partially true, but not as much as some people claim. But I don't think anyone here has ever really quantified, as if it's even possible, how much of the observed racial disparity is driven by A vs. B.** So, to me at least, you're coming off as saying, "Stop talking so much about race", but it's not clear why it bothers you so much that people are focusing on race. To me, if A is true to any significant degree, then it's a problem that's worth talking about and addressing.



**I don't do research in this area, but a large 2011 Criminology study (Kochel et al.) seems pretty emphatic about the arrest decision:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
In my view it's easily B. How you react to a police officer many times will dictate how you will be treated. As I've said, every black person I know has no problems with cops because they know how to act around them. Most of my friends are older, so that may have something to do with it.

When you see the video below, how do you feel? Black dude has a gun pointed at a white dude, and a white cop shows up. Guess what happens next?

05-28-2015 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Wil,

This is you arguing exactly that black people are more likely to be abused, and it's because they act worse to police than whites.
There are other factors involved. Cultural attitudes like distrust of the police, inner city high crime areas, etc. Without a doubt there are areas where the population acts worse to police than others. This isn't debatable.
05-28-2015 , 06:36 PM
So, do they act worse because they are too stupid to act better, they are defiantly accepting the abuse, or is it just an inherently worse culture?
05-28-2015 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
So, do they act worse because they are too stupid to act better, they are defiantly accepting the abuse, or is it just an inherently worse culture?
We are talking about certain areas, not a race. High crime areas tend to be extremely hostile to police officers.
05-28-2015 , 06:40 PM
How does that address my point? Why wouldn't people in high crime areas prone to abuse figure out to be on better behavior so as to not be abused?
05-28-2015 , 06:43 PM
Not really sure I understand the point of this ongoing exercise were we see how many different arguments Wil can attempt to badly mask his racism. This thread is getting incredibly boring.
05-28-2015 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
How does that address my point? Why wouldn't people in high crime areas prone to abuse figure out to be on better behavior so as to not be abused?
Because they don't care.
05-28-2015 , 06:44 PM
I dunno, I was amused by blaming the geography instead of the people therein.
05-28-2015 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
I dunno, I was amused by blaming the geography instead of the people therein.
And what people who high crime areas consist of? Are they blacks? Hispanics? Whites? A mixture? Or do you think it's only black people who live in high crime areas?

Listen MrWookie, if you think you're going to catch me in this "gotcha!" moment where I say something supremely racist, stop wasting your time. I'm not racist. I have a very large amount of black friends. I realize you have a serious issue with me scoffing at your opinions on things and you're always going to dislike me for having that "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude. That's ok, I understand I can come off as condescending. But try another line of attack, because this one isn't working.
05-28-2015 , 07:52 PM
You've already been caught in the gotcha though.
05-28-2015 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjoefish
You've already been caught in the gotcha though.
Well, I must be a racist with a lot of black friends. Like a living oxymoron. I'm surprised my black friends put up with it.
05-28-2015 , 08:03 PM
Do your black friends share the same opinion on this as you do?
05-28-2015 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Well, I must be a racist with a lot of black friends. Like a living oxymoron. I'm surprised my black friends put up with it.
05-28-2015 , 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Well, I must be a racist with a lot of black friends. Like a living oxymoron. I'm surprised my black friends put up with it.
It's actually pretty common for racists to like some black people in particular but hold vile racist stereotypes about the teeming masses of blacks they don't know. Most racists don't hate the sight of every black person! Augusta National used to have 100% black caddies. Slave owners let black people into their houses and watch their kids and ****.

And yes, "high crime" areas are overwhelmingly black or Latino. Perhaps you should look into the history of redlining to see how that happened.
05-28-2015 , 10:16 PM
This could have been posted but I thnk it's on topic.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jeffrey_br...nt?language=en
05-28-2015 , 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It's actually pretty common for racists to like some black people in particular but hold vile racist stereotypes about the teeming masses of blacks they don't know. Most racists don't hate the sight of every black person! Augusta National used to have 100% black caddies. Slave owners let black people into their houses and watch their kids and ****.

And yes, "high crime" areas are overwhelmingly black or Latino. Perhaps you should look into the history of redlining to see how that happened.
I know a guy that owns a bar who assures me he's not racist but he charges more than any other bar around and filters hip hop and rap off the touchtunes because it keeps 'those people' away. He even uses the line 'I don't hate black people, I hate ******s' and has said he gets along with some black people but he's had run ins over the years where a black person wronged him and they somehow represent the majority. Like, he earnestly doesn't think he's racist and is flabbergasted when I tell him the stuff he says/does is very much racist.
05-28-2015 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
When did I say people "deserve" abuse? People don't deserved to be abused by the police. The issue is that too many people don't take these encounters seriously, or think about how they are putting themselves into a very dangerous situation. We know how police react to confrontations in this country - very badly. Any time you are in a situation that involve police, you should act accordingly. Doing dumb ass **** like resisting arrest or telling police what they should be doing is simply stupid and extremely dangerous.



I don't see how my viewpoint is so controversial.


Wil I know I've brought this up before and you dodged it, but can you square this view with your view that you can't criticize Pam Geller for exercising her 1st Amendment rights in Texas? Both knew the likely outcomes, both of the likely outcomes were unjust, and both involve the injured party exercising their constitutional rights.

What's different?
05-28-2015 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjoefish
I know a guy that owns a bar who assures me he's not racist but he charges more than any other bar around and filters hip hop and rap off the touchtunes because it keeps 'those people' away. He even uses the line 'I don't hate black people, I hate ******s' and has said he gets along with some black people but he's had run ins over the years where a black person wronged him and they somehow represent the majority. Like, he earnestly doesn't think he's racist and is flabbergasted when I tell him the stuff he says/does is very much racist.
Your friend probably hates the "get rich or die trying meme" prevalent in the hip hops, not necessarily black people. It could be a white guy "poppin bottles" at his bar and he would hate him too, so it's not a race thing.
05-28-2015 , 10:50 PM
There really needs to be some kind of "Uber" like app/social networking platform that will match up racists with black people for short friendship contracts. Imagine what the surge pricing would be during events like Ferguson.
05-28-2015 , 10:51 PM
Nah, he's friends with all the white guys with neck tattoos that get out of control when drunk and doesn't mind them coming through.

But really, lol at that being your take away there.
05-28-2015 , 11:13 PM
Lol at me for potentially disagreeing with your interpretation of the situation? Jeez, my bad.
05-28-2015 , 11:19 PM
Exactly.

      
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