I think she still can be charged with murder, right? The only legitimate beef I see is that she should have been arrested right away even if her story is true and only wasn’t because she’s a cop.

Here are some examples of alternate theories. They had been sleeping together and she had a key to his apartment and she came in and shot him as a result of a lovers' quarrel. He was a loud neighbour and she couldn't take it anymore so she broke in and killed him rather than complain to the landlord. He had bags of marijuana in his apartment and she was also dealing drugs and she killed him because he was trying to take over some of her territory.

Those are motives. But they don't need to prove one of those to prove she murdered him. If all they had was a surveillance video showing her entering his apartment and shooting him, that proves she murdered him even if they have no clue as to her motivation for doing so.

I'm not a lawyer, so this is actually a legitimate question. Presumably, there is not going to be surveillance of the inside of the apartment. If we have video of her entering the apartment and he ends up shot is that really automatically murder?

Are you saying that there is nothing that could have possibly happened inside the apartment that could turn it into manslaughter?

Sounds good to me.

Me too, but I'm looking for what the law actually is.

I imagine it's likely we get the truth but Texas is probably one of the leading states where something funny might happen to the evidence and we don't.

No, I'm not saying anything of the sort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense
An affirmative defense to a civil lawsuit or criminal charge is a fact or set of facts other than those alleged by the plaintiff or prosecutor which, if proven by the defendant, defeats or mitigates the legal consequences of the defendant's otherwise unlawful conduct.

What I'm saying is the DA appears to have accepted her story as a proven fact to mitigate down to manslaughter what at face value would be murder.

What's the standard for affirmative defense? Is it beyond a reasonable doubt also?

In any case, assuming she hasn't actually proven it to whatever standard exists, but the DA is acting as she has, then the DA is committing malpractice. Correct?

I don't know I'm not a lawyer. But based on some of the flimsy self-defense claims I've heard of that resulted in an acquittal, I'm thinking the bar isn't that high.

I suppose it could if the DA obviously undercharged. But it's not unusual for the DA to either raise or lower the arresting charge with the grand jury.

That's interesting, I'd suspect we'll see her card not being tried in her lock and just being tried in Jean's lock. (or possibly neither if he opened the door after hearing her outside).

I think the simplest explanation is that she's a **** cop and she screwed up badly. If she's not paying attention/tired after a shift I can imagine it is plausible to just go on autopilot and plod down the identical corridor on the wrong floor of the apartment block and then fumble about at the door that would have been hers if she was on the right floor. She's then been startled by the fact a strange guy has opened the door (possibly him being black and her being a cop is a factor there too) and she's panicked...

I'm not a lawyer but I suspect that manslaughter would be the correct charge there, I doubt she went home wanting to kill anyone but she has taken a life, likely through her own incompetence and deserves a hefty prison sentence for it.

I think she has added in some BS to her story to make it sound better knowing full well she's screwed up - stuff like the door being open etc..

What was disturbing on twitter was the footage of her pacing up and down in the corridor talking on a mobile phone when I'd have hoped she'd be at least making some effort at first aid for the poor guy she'd just shot - instead she's clearly panicked and seemingly more worried about herself than the guy who's in his own apartment bleeding out. Sadly it isn't all the uncommon to see in with these US cop shooting incidents, the suspect/innocent person gets shot and the police stand around doing nothing to help except waiting for paramedics to arrive.

I would be interested to know if she could be charged with both murder and manslaughter? I've heard of a previous case where a bail bonds woman shot one of her clients (who was unarmed and in her office) and got away with it because she was charged with murder rather than manslaughter.

Worth emphasizing that your "simplest explanation" also involves her lying about it

I've heard of people getting acquitted because they were overcharged as you mentioned, and others found not guilty on a more serious offense but found guilty on a lesser included charge, but I don't know what goes into it.

Yup, partially. I believe the explanation that she got the wrong apartment and there was a terrible mistake is quite plausible.

I'd just also assume that someone who has screwed up in an event with serious repercussions has an incentive to try and spin their account as much as possible to try and excuse their actions.

Something along those lines makes the most sense. What makes less sense is if something completely different from her account went down, she'd concoct a story that still sends her to prison.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/us/da...ean/index.html
Dallas police fire officer charged with fatally shooting man in his apartment

Guyger was fired during a hearing Monday, Hall said.
An internal affairs investigation concluded that Guyger "engaged in adverse conduct when she was arrested" for manslaughter, according to a statement released on DPD's verified Twitter account.

Wonder what "engaged in adverse conduct when she was arrested" means.

First Degree Murder generally requires ill-will (motive) and evidence of preparation. Manslaughter is a death resulting from negligence. Prosecutors have immunity for "mistakes" but not for intentional abuse of process.

Hung Jury, 8-4 to acquit was the sticking point. No word on whether they plan to prosecute again.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cour...-ends-mistrial

Wow, guy was running away when he shot him. And there's video. Unbelievable.

it's texas tho, castle doctrine

details may be a bit fuzzy/hazy, but i remember a famous case a while back where a couple teenaged black boys (edit: turns out they were latino) broke into a house or a shed or something of a man who was out of town- that man's neighbor was watching his property for him and spotted them, so he came out with a shotgun. the boys ran, and he shot one of them in the back, paralyzing him i believe. pretty certain they even played video of him using the n-word on the 911 call where the operator was telling him repeatedly not to go out and confront them, and he did it anyway.

i want to say that he was acquited by a jury


ahh here we go, found an article

https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1

i mean basically texas has a long long history of being totally cool with murdering petty criminals and handicapped people

that's pretty messed up, surely castle doctrine just lessens or removes any obligation to retreat, being able to (essentially vindictively) shoot someone in the back as they themselves are retreating/fleeing goes quite a lot further than that - it certainly is hard to argue that it really constitutes self defence, it is just revenge/punishment

edit - and using the n-word too, so he's essentially using/abusing the law in order to commit a hate crime and get away with it.

Re: the n word comments, i may be conflating that detail with another extremely similar, very high profile case some years before this one

8 shot, 7 police including 1 fatally in Florence , SC. White shooter arrested unscathed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ml#nt=screamer
Live updates: Verdict to be announced about 1:45 p.m. in trial of Chicago police Officer Jason Van Dyke

Looks like they just started deliberating yesterday afternoon. Sounds like a guilty.

NOT GUILTY


of Official Misconduct














Guilty of 2nd Degree Murder and 16 counts of aggravated battery