Wait, you want to equate people who actually get into violent altercations with the police with people who did everything right?

Does it surprise you that people "do everything right" and still wind up in very bad circumstances with police?

Oh right. You just baselessly assume that there's something we don't know about that Tamir Rice did in the two seconds he had between police arrival and the first bullet hitting him that made his death an understandable consequence rather than a tremendous injustice.

And as for race not playing as big a role as we think, how much racism is acceptable, wil?

We are not stupid people. We know that Tamir Rice didn't deserve to die. We saw the "toy" he had in his hand. His death was tragic, but he had something that looked like a weapon on him.

It depends on who you ask. Anyone who isn't white in this country faces racism. People say racist things to me on a daily basis. We just accept most of it. Honestly, most of it isn't really a big deal unless we want to make a big deal out of it, so we just learn to live with it.

Wil,
Do you agree or disagree with what Wookie said here? Which option best characterizes your view:

A) A black person, on average, is likely to be treated worse by a police officer than an otherwise-identical white person in the same situation.

B) A black person, on average, is likely to be treated worse by a police officer than a white person, but it's basically due to correlated "legitimate" factors like demeanor, offense severity, prior record (which may in turn be driven by factors like education, poverty, etc.)

C) Black people and white people receive the same treatment from police.

D, I guess to be fair) Black people receive better treatment from the police than white people.

It's hard to tell what you're actually arguing here. My best interpretation of what you're saying is that yes (A) is partially true, but not as much as some people claim. But I don't think anyone here has ever really quantified, as if it's even possible, how much of the observed racial disparity is driven by A vs. B.** So, to me at least, you're coming off as saying, "Stop talking so much about race", but it's not clear why it bothers you so much that people are focusing on race. To me, if A is true to any significant degree, then it's a problem that's worth talking about and addressing.



**I don't do research in this area, but a large 2011 Criminology study (Kochel et al.) seems pretty emphatic about the arrest decision:

In my view it's easily B. How you react to a police officer many times will dictate how you will be treated. As I've said, every black person I know has no problems with cops because they know how to act around them. Most of my friends are older, so that may have something to do with it.

When you see the video below, how do you feel? Black dude has a gun pointed at a white dude, and a white cop shows up. Guess what happens next?

lol

I have no issues with being banned. Most of the times I just shrug my shoulders and never say anything because I know I deserved it. My last instance of being banned was uncalled for, and I said something about it.

The ban didn't bother me. The reason did.

Good lord. For those not willing to sit through a 3 minute video, you may have been expecting the police to TAKE DOWN THE ARMED BLACK GUY. YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT:



How do I feel? I feel like I just watched a 3 minute video showing a responsible black gun owner being treated appropriately by police. I may be remarkably thick headed, but watching that video didn't change my worldview in any meaningful way. To be clear, I don't think that showing 1 or 10 or 1,000,000 examples of proper behavior erases a relatively small proportion of improper, systematically racist behavior.

Also, when you say

I think 2 things:
A) It's ****ty that black people have to act better around the police than white people in order to receive the same degree of treatment, and you should feel bad for your friends who have to live like that.

B) The ****ing excerpt from the study I referenced in the same post specifically mentioned controlling for all of those situational factors, and they still find robust evidence of racial disparity.

Like WTF. Yeah Wil, that's a pretty textbook definition of racism and clearly something we should be trying to change.

Also, no, no one believes you are randomly asking a large cross-section of black acquaintances about their encounters with police and analyzing them in any sort of meaningful manner.

I like how wil accuses me of talking down to black people, but then just a few posts later he's saying that, e.g. black teen males, who are >20x more likely to be killed by police than white teen males, the disparity is just because the black people are stupider, more criminal and/or more uppity than whites.

come on guys, we cant discount the opinions of all the random black security guards and homeless people that wil has surveyed on his way in and out of work

wil obviously has me on ignore because he mad, but that's a pretty heavy accusation and if wil can't produce a citation that I said that to someone, I think moderator action may be called for.

You did say "I hope IF your daughter ever gets raped" to me, and then "in before microbet throws himself a pity party", but I never mentioned it until now because you need to throw your pity party and whine for help from a moderator.

LOL you been nursing that grudge. Nobody made you wander into the drunk sex thread to drop "but what if the guy is drunk too, though?" and then white knight for ikes. Seriously, talk to your kids about the chain emails you treat credulously. Let em know what kind of man you are. Let them know whose side you'll be on.

But yeah, I'll take that as a concession that the "awful posting cooperative" is making up that I said that about someone. Look at you, microbet, barging into THIS thread to.... white knight, yet again, for someone saying awful ****. Always a good look.

Not a grudge, it is understandably noticeable when you want help from a moderator though. It was the tipping point of you not being able to be taken seriously. You're a comedy routine with like 8 different jokes that you've repeated over and over again for years. I didn't know that at the time.

The thing is, this grudge is all because microbet "knew" ikes and the other MRAs weren't getting a fair shake, so he was like making sarcastic jabs at Poker Reference and lying about how everyone totes agreed that rape is bad so nobody be mean to the reactionaries.

Here's my full quote:
I stand by that as a last ditch effort to finally provoke the tiniest shred of basic human decency out of micro. It was absolutely not a wish that anyone be raped, which is what wil said.

So, microbet, in your everlasting commitment to being FAIR and JUST, would you say that wil lied about me?

I capitalized the "if" specifically to make it evident that that quote was not you wishing rape on my daughter. I assume you're not too dumb to realize that. I don't know what you've said about other people's daughters.

You don't have to make your case itt, just report wil's post to a moderator. If Wookie doesn't do anything, maybe make a thread in ATF.

Glad that microbet stopped by to confirm that yes, wil was full of ****.

Wow!! A guy with a permit to carry a weapon defends himself against a criminal and police don't shoot the armed black man. This video has to be fake.

If he was unarmed I wouldn't have liked his chances.

It's really not that big of a deal. Like I've said, white people getting away with stuff isn't something we already knew.

Arrests are down more than 50% and there were 36 murders this month. All because 6 cops ****ed up and were held accountable.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...527-story.html