Greek debt negotiation - Page 25 - Politics and Economics

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Greek debt negotiation

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07-15-2015 , 11:23 AM

#601

seattlelou

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 31,584

Is the IMF asking for haircuts on the loans they made?

07-15-2015 , 11:54 AM

#602

chytry

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlelou

Is the IMF asking for haircuts on the loans they made?

IMF says their loans are sustainable
convenient, innit

07-15-2015 , 11:55 AM

#603

seattlelou

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 31,584

Quote:

Originally Posted by chytry

IMF says their loans are sustainable
convenient, innit

Too funny.

07-15-2015 , 12:14 PM

#604

daca

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlelou

Is the IMF asking for haircuts on the loans they made?

The IMF doesnt do haircuts. The standard response is that poorer countries in worse situations havent received any. It's perfectly fine and everyone knows the rules.

07-15-2015 , 07:17 PM

#605

seattlelou

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 31,584

Greece approves the required measures. The remaining stumbling block is Gernany?

07-15-2015 , 07:25 PM

#606

grizy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,569

UK actually. They want to use ESFM for bridge financing, which includes non euro zone money.

Germany will pass something. The only question is how much debt relief Merkel could get through the German parliament.

Finland might be bigger problem in terms of getting consensus.

07-15-2015 , 07:31 PM

#607

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,878

UK is fine I think. They're going to put in measure to ring fence the UK from liabilities and it's hard to see that not being acceptable.

07-15-2015 , 08:12 PM

#608

grizy

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,569

Missed that particular news. Then it's just Merkel gauging how much she could get through the Finnish and German parliaments now.

According to BBC news, Varoufakis is getting jeered and heckled at. "You got us here."

Last edited by grizy; 07-15-2015 at 08:19 PM.

07-16-2015 , 01:44 AM

#609

69sBigLick

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by daca

The ranking of blame goes something like this:

Greek politicians pre-crisis and the people that voted for them (corruption, spending and cheating their way into a dumb currency union).

The people that came up with the Euro (just an dumb idea in general and they let in Greece despite knowing they cheated).

The ECB / people that made the rules for the Euro (the reluctance to do monetary stimulus is just insane and destructive).

Syriza and the people that voted for them (just no idea what they're doing. Things were actually looking like they were getting better, but they destroyed that. Lied to everyone by promising to stay in the Euro while ending austerity. Have handle the negotiations about as badly as is humanly possible and the referendum even worse).

Other Greek politicians post-crisis and the people that voted for them (too slow to implement supply side reforms)

Troika / rest of the Eurozone (Should have let Greece default / restructure their debt early in the crisis. Should have been more generous. Could maybe have done some kind of fiscal stimulus).

nailed it.and i m greek.

07-16-2015 , 01:59 AM

#610

Dutch101

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,987

I actually think that the people that came up with the Euro are fine. It is the people that then decided adding more countries was more important than having a solid euro.

07-16-2015 , 05:57 AM

#611

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizy

Finland might be bigger problem in terms of getting consensus.

Finland will yield. There's still not enough political capital to overturn this deal. We like to be the nice guys way too much and worry what other think of us.

Oh yeah, Finland was against Greece's EURO-membership to begin with but gave up after solidarity-card was played by France IIRC.

Needless to say, sympathies are running low especially since Finland is going trough its own austerity (GIVE MONEY!!1).

07-16-2015 , 06:37 AM

#612

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

How long till the Greeks elect a no more austerity we mean it this time party?

07-16-2015 , 06:47 AM

#613

FWWM

FOOT FF Fristion '15

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 12,502

The situation is a big LOL. It took a full three days from the next huge bailout offer to a general strike, rioting on the streets and resignations in the cabinet. Although the measures passed, who on earth thinks they will be implemented in any seriousness? And why should anyone give these folks any more money?
On the other hand they do not appear to be prepared at all for Grexit either, pretty much everybody appears to be better prepared for that than the Greeks themselves.

07-16-2015 , 08:01 AM

#614

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

How long till the Greeks elect a no more austerity we mean it this time party?

I would set o/u at 3 months.

07-16-2015 , 08:06 AM

#615

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,878

Finland votes yes
The 7B bridging loan has gone through.

For all the noise, Greece voted yes by a large margin and a half hour demo by not many people provides some pics but amounts to diddly-squat.

Hopefully better times. Until next time...

07-16-2015 , 08:32 AM

#616

69sBigLick

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

How long till the Greeks elect a no more austerity we mean it this time party?

there are no more parties left that havent voted for austerity,exept the neo-nazis and the communists.and they both are unpopular right now.lets hope this doesnt change.

07-16-2015 , 08:34 AM

#617

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

What was that country that had harsh economic sanctions passed on it regarding debt repayments that lead to some pretty rightwing guys coming to power?

07-16-2015 , 08:48 AM

#618

FWWM

FOOT FF Fristion '15

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 12,502

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

What was that country that had harsh economic sanctions passed on it regarding debt repayments that lead to some pretty rightwing guys coming to power?

Iran?

I know who you mean but the situation is not comparable bcos although the overall debt is high they have been granted very low interest rates and most of the repayments are far in the future. Portugal and Italy are still paying more on interest relative to GDP than Greece does.

07-16-2015 , 08:50 AM

#619

daca

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69sBigLick

there are no more parties left that havent voted for austerity,exept the neo-nazis and the communists.and they both are unpopular right now.lets hope this doesnt change.

The Syriza left could start their own with Varoufakis and Zoi and friends.

I think the main hope is that it's now pretty clear they cant just get a better deal to both keep the Euro and avoid austerity/structural reforms, so the opposition would have to campaign on leaving the Euro, which is still unpopular. Or maybe they could just win on running the Syriza campaign again because **** it, why not?

07-16-2015 , 08:58 AM

#620

Kukraprout

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend

I would set o/u at 3 months.

Good call.

http://www.stokokkino.gr/article/100...ber-or-October

Quote:

Nikos Voutsis speaking on “Kokkino” said that elections are highly likely. “If it’s not September it will be on October and it will be a product of an overall insight-not just of the Syriza government- on the broader developments” he said.

Asked what would be the main question for the next election, the minister of Interior said it would be a mandate to apply our program: “A program with antibodies to the effects of unfair consequences, i.e. to farmers, so that from targeted political and programmatic interventions there will be a counterweight to the effects of the deal. And of course to combat tax evasion, tax exemptions, the oligarchy”.

Not sure what their antibodies and counterweights are going to be since they wont be allowed to spend money on anything.

07-16-2015 , 10:26 AM

#621

Husker

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,886

Would be really interesting to see what platform the various parties will stand on if there's an election

07-16-2015 , 10:29 AM

#622

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

I think the winning party/coalition is based on the claim that Greece's debt is illegal and this whole circus will continue.

07-16-2015 , 10:37 AM

#623

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,886

Yeah it just seems as though it'll go round and round in circles with the electorate voting for whichever party/ parties are offering any sort of stance against austerity etc even though those parties will be unable to actually do anything about it.

07-16-2015 , 10:48 AM

#624

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,197

This is how like my tax money to be spend on.

07-16-2015 , 11:23 AM

#625

69sBigLick

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by daca

thats true.fwiw,every1 knows that structural reforms is a must.the austerity thing is whats they fight against.and lets face it.the debt is unsustainable.unless money start falling from the skies the situation is gonna get worst and worst.

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