https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1082013592097050627

LOL

i inherited 400 million dollars and my dad's new york real estate business so i understand what it means to live paycheck-to-paycheck, believe me.

Trump uses Obama's and Hillary's words to make his case:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...n-barack-obama

This is why the democrats are losing this issue. Everyone knows the are shutting the government down just to make Trump look bad. They don't occupy the high ground here.

Not it didn't. The very same poll posed another another question: How much do you blame each of the groups listed below for causing the shutdown of the Federal government:

A Lot:



Not at all:



So more people absolve the Democrats of any blame while a similar number hold each party substantially culpable.

Keep trying buddy

I think you've done a good job in making your point.

Do you think smashing the windows of republican offices helps or hurts the democrat's cause?

LOL, the idea that there is only one solution to boarder security and it’s a wall is as stupid an idea as immigrants cause a majority of the crime today, or that MS-13 is going to get you.

For someone claiming to be smarter than the "40 percentilers" in this forum, it's amazing how many obvious falsehoods coming from ignorance you can spout in one post.
- "Democrats are losing this issue": lol (early polls showed most people blame Trump for the shutdown, newer polls tend to show congressional Republicans taking the most blame)
- "they [Democrats] are shutting the government down": hahahahahaha (obvious reasons)

Depends on who's doing the smashing and who's considered at fault for the shutdown. If it's the wageless workers revolting then I think the timing is wrong but that the strategy might have merit in the future. Trump is getting the meat of the blame right now so simply staging walkouts and keeping their plight in the media would be more likely to increase both their and democratic support. If that happens, the dem's control the narrative, but nothing continues to give then more aggressive action might become more understandable and therefore more effective.

I agree you can secure the border by other means. But in some places a fence or wall or other physical barrier will be the best/most cost effective means. Why don't the democrats just give Trump his 5.3 billion for fencing/wall and ask for an additional 5.3 billion for drones/more border patrol agents or what ever it is they want to secure the border? Its not like 5.3 billion is going to build a barrier that spans the entire border.

Or have the dems just decide that are not interested in securing the border any more? If so just come out and say it.

Last, It is stupid when the Trump or some republican touts a crime a committed by an illegal immigrant as justification for a wall. If they could show that a random illegal immigrant is more likely to commit a violent crime than a random legal resident is, that would be a more compelling argument.

Suppose circumstances change such that, by your estimation, you acknowledge that violence becomes an effective strategy for change. Is it a moral one?

LMAO, why doesn’t he come up with an actual plan with actual costs and actual benefits?

If border wall funding is no big deal/won't help that much seems kind of foolish to hold up the entire government for it. Trump probably shouldn't do that

Sure violence is sometimes justified, especially if violence is being visited upon you. I don't think it's moral to deprive people of their livelihoods over something that has nothing to do with them or their work. I also think that the people put in that position have a right to outrage and that that outrage is just. If it becomes apparent that a persons plight becomes so acute and no other avenue of relief shows itself then the targeted breaking of a few windows becomes an entirely appropriate response.

So if some unpaid republican civil servants start breaking the windows of the offices of democrats because they believe the democrats are responsible for the shut down and want to express their outrage that way, you would be okay with it?

Justified in all but target.

edit: although I'm not opposed to getting angry at any of the sods tbh.

Do you coach rowing, Lobo?

It's exactly the opposite.

One of the things that makes humans distinct from Chimpanzees is that humans of different troops will negotiate peace if the can manage it. Chimpanzees just tear each other apart.

These same Democrats voted for physical barriers in the past. Clinton was advocating it in 2015. The only reason the Democrats won't concede on this issue now is to just deny Trump the ability to say he fulfilled a campaign promise. The democrats are chimpanzees who are hell bent on destroying Trump.

I think a republican civil servant outrage toward the democrats would be justified. But I don't think that same civil servant is justified in smashing windows of the opposing troop. We are human beings. The republicans and democrats should act as such and negotiate a peace.

I don't know if it actually is or not, but I would guess that you are right. I would think an illegal immigrant would want to fly under the radar and not draw too much attention to themselves.

Please stop quoting every Gordo post. TIA!

The Democrats won't concede on this issue now because it would encourage the GOP to continue their hostage-taking anytime they want something in the future. If the GOP wants their wall, they are free to re-open the government and negotiate for a wall along with Democratic concessions like reasonable adults usually would.

That's because you're not actually smarter than the "40 percentilers" of this forum.

The Weeds went over this on Friday - the GOP is shutting down the government because they have nothing else to offer. If they were content to negotiate "wall for X" where X is, idk, limited amnesty for dreamers/the sort of deals that people were discussing a year ago - there's no need to close down the government for those types of negotiations to take place.

The only reason the GOP is refusing to open the government is because they don't want to negotiate. They want Dems to cave and give them everything they want with nothing in return. Which is, to the non-stupid, obviously not how government works.

You can tell this is a bad argument because it can be made against the democrats just as effectively as it can be made against the republicans. Finger pointers point fingers. Sophisticated people make points.