Ikes- made this thread title.

Oh wait. He didn't. Wookie did.

Again, Obamacare increases demand by giving people who did not have health insurance health insurance. I'm not going to apologize for a program doing EXACTLY what it is intended to do.

You want to sack up and own your awfulness and say that giving those people health insurance is a bad thing, do it. If not, shut the **** up and let the grownups run the country.

Obamacare is bad for plenty of reasons, the most obvious being working on top of our existing system. Worsening the doctor shortage is not my argument against obamacare at all.

Also, time to find something, apologize, or gtfo.

If Obamacare adds 40 million people to insurance rolls but getting into a primary care doctors office requires a week long wait, did you really achieve your goal of health care access for all americans? The obvious answer is no.

Now, the passage of Obamacare still codifies a commitment to a technocratic top down health care system, but you have to be willing to see it's flaws in order to change our system for the better. Otherwise, well, you get stuck defending **** you have no business defending.

It'll probably take an act of congress to change how medicare/medicaid is paid.... and well, good luck with that.

hahaha you perpetuate the caricature of yourself so perfectly

So in a discussion specifically about doctor shortages you say there are problems with Obamacare, but you meant other stuff?

Every rational supporter of Obamacare will admit to the existence of significant issues within Obamacare. This isn't controversial. That doesn't mean they don't support Obamacare.

This is rapidly ascending the lol ike power rankings

And when faced with the complete lack of argument, fall into petty name calling.

Riverman.

But does it really? Many seniors who didn't have healthcare previously have difficulties finding a doctor when they enroll into medicare.

Giving people health insurance is a great thing. Just like giving people cars and houses would be too. Why should someone with no money and no job not have the right to own a car or house... its just the right thing to do.

I make the same argument against the military. Why should someone with no money and no job have the right to military protection?

Actually, now that I think about it, we should extend this to the police as well.

You, sir, are brilliant.

Pretty sure you're thinking of Doc Hollywood.

Education as well. **** the poor.

Agree with both of these. This is America, damn it. As long as this is the land of FREEdom military protection, your own personal police officer, food, education, homes, cell phones, health care, cars, and clothes...... should all be FREE.

You couldn't pay me to think about Doc Hollywood.

What does that have to do with Obamacare? (setting aside that you literally made it up)

Also, though, isn't that a good thing? No more doctor shortage, right?

There's no doctor shortage for the wealthy. There is a doctor shortage for the lower middle class and the poor. The poor who currently have no health insurance and no doctor will have difficulties finding a doctor.
The U.S. has a very high infant mortality rate compared to other industrialized nations. It's even high among nonhispanic whites. There probably aren't enough healthcare professionals to provide all with proper prenatal care.

The healthcare market does not work like the housing or car market for an infinite number of reasons. We already provide care for those who do not have insurance. So if you want your analogy to start make any sense you have to come out and say you think people should be denied care if they do not have health insurance.

another thing that has not been brought up in awhile is that 45,000 americans, that is one every 12 minutes, die because they do not have health insurance. like im not comfortable with that, and when the republican plan is to do nothing, and NO OTHER industrialized nation has successfully figured out how to create a private health care insurance market, im sorry if i dont give a **** that you might have to wait a few more days now to see a doctor because you have the sniffles.

This problem is much more complicated that this explanation.

It's also measured differently in the US than in other nations. In the US, live births is any baby that is not dead outside of the womb for even the briefest of moments. Not stillborn, regrdless of weight, number of weeks, birth defects, whatever, means a live birth. In other countries there are criteria about what constitutes a live birth. Germany is 500g weight. <500g is not a live birth.

There's no shortage of free climics and programs to make sure women are getting prenatal care. There is a shortage of women who care about their baby. My mother is a NICU nurse and she tells me all the time about women who deliver junkie babies because momma is smoking crack on the way to the hosptial.

The current U.S. model for healthcare is twice as expensive as any other country's model. We are not getting good value for the money. Obamacare is the current ineffective model expanded. So why are lefties so convinced it can solve healthcare in the U.S.?

I don't know. Why did anybody think that government, the organization that brought us the models of efficiency that are the Post Office and the DMV, could somehow make medicine cheaper and more efficient?

The post office is incredibly efficient given its mandate to deliver anything anywhere in the country for pennies. The NHS in England is orders of magnitude better at delivering healthcare to an entire country than our FUBAR system. I'll give you the DMV.