The Great Government Shutdowns of 2018 - Page 14 - Politics and Economics

I think saying they have a winning hand with DACA is vastly overstating it. It has support in a vacuum, but its not very strong support from a lot of people and its not a priority.

I do agree that its time for serious primary challenges. The Republicans show how even a small and bat-**** crazy wing of the party can have a huge effect on actual policy.

Edit: Only like a 1/3 of people actually think DACA is worth a shutdown. I think people forget how happy a large chunk of your country is to be lazily and ignorantly racist. They support Dreamers as long as it has absolutely no negative effects for themselves.

01-22-2018 , 02:46 PM

#327

Lawnmower Man

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01-22-2018 , 02:49 PM

#328

Huehuecoyotl

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I mean this is what you're dealing with

01-22-2018 , 02:50 PM

#329

cuserounder

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2019??? 2019???? All the Dreamers will be deported by then. It's now or it'll be too late.

01-22-2018 , 02:50 PM

#330

m_reed05

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Honestly I thought they'd cave before there was ever a shutdown. But honestly did anyone not think they'd cave?

And are people really acting like the GOP compromised by funding CHIP? So can we just admit they are against it too then?

01-22-2018 , 02:52 PM

#331

hard2tel

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oh god the poker metaphors

Might as well go ahead and change title to Shutdown(s)

01-22-2018 , 02:53 PM

#332

Huehuecoyotl

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Republicans weren't much opposed to CHIP. They wanted to fund it, but knew that they could hold it hostage because the funding didn't run out until the CR. If Democrats really had that McConnell Sophie's Choice then they should have 100% picked legalizing the Dreamers and not funded CHIP to watch the Republicans turn around and fund it

But in reality everyone knew the Republicans weren't really holding it hostage per se, they just wanted a talking point about how Democrats supported MS 13 over lilly white innocent American boys and girls.

01-22-2018 , 03:01 PM

#333

Huehuecoyotl

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01-22-2018 , 03:04 PM

#334

ScreaminAsian

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Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

McConnell STOLE a SCOTUS seat and you decide to trust him again?!??!?!?

AWISJDNLAWKJHDALKWJDLAWKDJLWAKDJ

classic democrats

01-22-2018 , 03:09 PM

#335

bobman0330

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I'm kind of baffled about why people are upset about this deal? Unless I'm missing some huge detail, the Dems can just shut down the government in three weeks if McConnell screws them, correct?

01-22-2018 , 03:17 PM

#336

cuserounder

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Even if Dems get DACA before 3/5, if there's no path to citizenship, the precedent has been set. Take a program that's popular with Democrats hostage, then trade it back to them for a concession on an issue of your choice... they won't have the guts to fight.

01-22-2018 , 03:18 PM

#337

David Sklansky

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Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,096

There will be a Dream Act because Democrats will accept a wall and an end to chain migration and the lottery to get it. The wall will not be considered a waste of money by those who favor it now because it is less about an effective physical battier than building a reverse Statue of Liberty.

01-22-2018 , 03:22 PM

#338

ScreaminAsian

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brinksmanship works really well if your opponent demonstrates they can’t take the heat

01-22-2018 , 03:23 PM

#339

bobman0330

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cuserounder

What is the Democratic concession in that scenario? Not shutting down the government?

01-22-2018 , 03:26 PM

#340

jjshabado

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Also, lets not miss the point that the Democrats are the ****ing minority party and the US congress seems to be set up to make the leaders of the majority party really strong.

01-22-2018 , 03:32 PM

#341

Pwn_Master

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We need a blue wave, and Ds need to go HAM next time they have power. That is pretty much all there is to it.

Ds can draw attention to the issue and force the Rs to say they hate the DREAMers instead of letting them play it both ways, but if Rs are like "yeah, we hate the DREAMers" then there is nothing Ds can do about it.

01-22-2018 , 03:37 PM

#342

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,720

Seems telling that everyone who is being thought of as a plausible 2020 prospect (Harris, Sanders, Gillibrand, Booker, Warren) voted against it, despite it passing 81-18.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...shutdown2.html

01-22-2018 , 03:38 PM

#343

Matty Lice

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wheatrich

R's literally control everything and people in here think the dems are wrong for not getting literally everything. Unreal. It's called compromise and to get anything at all is good. There are many people who work for the gov who need that job. This is the best you're gonna get or you get nothing. Those are the options. You all just wanna scorch earth.

If you don't like it, go to the polls in november, until then you're at best only gonna get a few things you want.

ofc I don't trust mitch either but it's better to keep the gov't open than not to and it's also better to fund chip than not to. DACA is basically done till 19 either way, dems were never winning that one this year (senate and house will pass their own and neither will pass the other and pres won't pass anything steve king says no).

This guy gets it. The GOP controls EVERYTHING right now. Also, the SOTU is coming up and Daddy Orange would have ****ted on the Dems for an hour straight. I know he's gonna do that anyway, but unless he stays on script, there's a good chance that Trump will say something that will **** things up for the GOP.

01-22-2018 , 03:41 PM

#344

JonnyA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Also, lets not miss the point that the Democrats are the ****ing minority party and the US congress seems to be set up to make the leaders of the majority party really strong.

This. For people who think the D's should not have caved - what was the end game? D's were always going to lose as they had no leverage (which is why I think doing the shutdown was stupid). I do think losing quickly was far better than drawing this out even longer.

01-22-2018 , 03:41 PM

#345

DeuceKicker

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Yes, they'll shut down the government for 1 day every 3 weeks, until all the DACAs are deported. Then they'll shut it down for 1 day every 3 weeks, until all the CHIP kids are dead, then there will be no more reason to shut it down.

01-22-2018 , 03:43 PM

#346

cuserounder

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bobman0330

What is the Democratic concession in that scenario? Not shutting down the government?

The wall, chain migration, reducing legal immigration by a ton and going to some "merit-based" system in which you get extra points for being from Norway and a deduction for being from Haiti.

It'll be the wall+ something else off that list, if not all of it. They're going to reward hostage taking.

01-22-2018 , 03:45 PM

#347

iron81

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Who gives a **** if the Senate votes on DACA, lol at the House ever voting on it.

01-22-2018 , 03:50 PM

#348

jjshabado

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cuserounder

I mean, what's their alternative? Just shut down the whole government until January 2018 and get literally nothing accomplished?

The current approach by Democrats has actually seemed pretty decent. Limit damage as much as possible and keep the Republicans unbelievably unpopular and hope you can make up enough ground in 2018 to get real power.

01-22-2018 , 03:50 PM

#349

JordanIB

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Lice

Yes, he's going to crap on them during the SOTU either way, but he probably would have been more likely to say something to **** up his side after a 2nd consecutive weekend of not being able to go golfing.

01-22-2018 , 03:52 PM

#350

JonnyA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iron81

Who gives a **** if the Senate votes on DACA, lol at the House ever voting on it.

I think that is actually the best outcome. There is no way a DACA bill is ever getting passed and signed. So best outcome is something that allows the Dems to put 100% of the blame on Republicans - which would be Senate passing a bill that House doesn't even vote on. That makes it very easy for Dems to run on that issue in 2018 (which I think helps in a lot of places).

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