Our country was founded upon the white, upperclass, male, and property owners to be able to vote. It has taken centuries for others to have the right to vote.

Not surprising white conservatives are still ok with voter obstacles, since they have none.

Strict constitutionalists! Original intent of the founders! Read the text!

So it's either your a hard worker or you're a whiny bitch who asks for time off to vote? Okay, seems like there's a ton of middle ground there.

You realize this all started with me merely pointing out there are laws covering time off when people were talking about it not being a holiday right? I'm not sure why you keep insinuating that a person who asks for time off to vote is going to do it in the middle of the day for some reason (fwiw a lot of the laws allow the employer to decide the time frame) or is some dead beat that constantly takes time off for whatever other reasons you're injecting.

I'll point out, again, how little this probably comes into play. How many people are actually working more than 12 hours of the 14 hour voting day while not using early voting or absentee? Sure there might be some random person who abuses it but I'm not sure how that is relevant to the original point.

I work for a union FWIW, its pretty general knowledge AFAIK. I'm not sure if it's a better thing that you think union workers stand up for their rights more or sadder that you think non union workers don't advocate for themselves.

We have different definitions of workers 'advocating for themselves' obviously. Trotting out laws and regulations for that sort of trivial thing (that shouldn't even be a worktime issue for the most part) really riles me up, as you can tell.

You yourself just conceded the law is essentially doesn't matter for people that don't work a crapload of hours -- when exactly is someone who works an 8 hour day going to utilize this law then? Oh, never, because they're going to vote either before or after work, exactly as I said they should/would? That was exactly my point.

Anyone with normal work hours that trots out this law and essentially says "Pay me to vote" (when you yourself pointed out there are numerous other reasonable options available) is obviously not at the top of the employee heap. Anyone who works a professional non-union 14 hour a day job is going to get laughed out of the office if they cite this law as reason why they should miss work-- as you pointed out, in either of these cases the employee can vote either early or by absentee ballot. That was my point.

I'm all for "advocating for yourself" when your working conditions are poor, or you're being ****ed with regarding promised wages/bonuses/whatever -- that you can't see the difference between that and my having value for not making tasks you can do on your own time your employer's problem is a little puzzling. Taking personal responsibility instead of quoting a statute number does not mean you're letting The Man bend you over the sofa.

I didn't just concede anything, if you read the posts up above I tried to tell you how the law works. No where did I say people working 8 hours should be given time off to vote. I also didn't say people should be paid to vote, I merely pointed out some states have laws saying you can't be docked pay.

You've injected a lot of other stuff into what was a pretty simple thing I was pointing out.

FWIW I don't think voting is a trivial matter though. I'm still not sure what working a non union job has to do with this. It's easier for a boss to laugh off breaking the law in those places? I'm not sure why you keep pushing a union/non union workplace angle on this, the laws cover everyone and has nothing to do with bargaining or contracts. I can understand why someone running a business would hate someone with knowledge of the law, specifically labor law, but I think everyone should know what they can/can't do.

There is a difference between personal responsibility and being ****ed with, I never said there wasn't and I'm not sure why you keep ranting about it. That being said there are situations where someone could be expecting to not work on election day but then needing to that they couldn't necessarily plan for ahead of time.

This is pretty hilarious IMO. I mean I know suzzer has some kumbaya tendencies but this "there is A LAW so obviously this guy is fabricating/exaggerating this story" naivety is just too much.

It may shock you guys to know this, but there are OTHER laws people break or just bend all the time, too. Don't watch your local news, your HEAD MIGHT EXPLODE from the shock of seeing just how many crimes are committed each day.

All I'm saying is there's a difference between how the employees in the following two examples would be perceived on the job:

Scenario A -- 3 weeks before election day

Employee A: Hey, I'm sure you know election day is coming up in a few weeks. Voting's really important to me, and I'd really like to go to the polls at some point that day if at all possible.

Employer: What's your workload like that day? Is there anything pressing we need to get out to the client around that time?

Employee A: Well, Task X is due around then; I've been working on it with Employee B. We're going to do our best to have it done before Voting Day, but I checked with him and he said he'd cover for me while I'm gone if it comes to that. If I need to, I may do a few extra hours of work over the weekend before voting day to make sure we hit our deadline, if it looks like that's going to be an issue.

Employer: Sounds great! Keep me posted.

vs.

Scenario B: Election Day, 6:30 pm

Employee A: Hey, I'm going to be heading out of the office for an hour or so to go vote.

Employer: This is kind of late notice. Do you have time to do that? Is there anything due tonight?

Employee A: Well, Task X is due to the client in a few hours. I talked to Employee B and he said he'd be willing to cover for me. I'm pretty sure he's going to be able to get things finished on time.

Employer: Pretty sure? Couldn't you have planned ahead a little? You didn't even mention this to me before today.

EmployeeA: It slipped my mind, I'm sorry. Voting is really important to me though, and you are legally required to let me go to the polls if I want to, which I do.

Employer: . . . You're right, I can't stop you from going; get back as soon as possible.

As an Employer, I would have a lot more value for the Employee in scenario A, because he came to me proactively with a personal issue quite early and proposed a satisfactory solution to the problem, while the Employee in Scenario B, while still very courteous (no hyperbole to nit on rjoe) just throws it in his boss's lap and quotes a statute. How one deals with situations like that affects one's career. Sure, if that's the only thing all year that the Employee in Scenario B does to irk their boss, it likely won't end up being a big deal; however, in my experience, people that handle a situation as described in Scenario B handle a lot of personal situations that way -- doing so will certainly affect their evaluation at work, and their career as a whole. That you think it shouldn't, and that someone shouldn't be punished for exercising thier CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS (that's all he was doing!) is incredibly naive.

As a salaried employee, you are paid a salary to work. You doing something other than getting your work done on work time = being paid to do that other thing. I take great pleasure in getting paid to take 20 minutes of dumps per day, for example.

Not that it wasn't obvious already, but we have very different worldviews about working in general, and what a boss "breaking the law" actually entails.

Keep fighting the good fight for your rights, man. Let me know when you win.

.

As per the law you quoted, not allowing someone to go vote on Election Day is technically breaking the law. Referencing my earlier post, if the boss in Scenario A eventually prevents Employee A from voting just to be a douche, that is breaking the law AND something I consider to be a real problem. Whether, as an employee, it is in the best long term interest for your career to pursue action for that matter is obviously dependent on the situation.

If the boss in Scenario B tells the employee that he's very sorry, but he can't let him out of the office to go vote, then that is also technically illegal as per the law, but it is NOT something I consider to be actionable (personally). As the boss, IMO it's not your responsibility to accommodate your employees' poor planning.

Using the law to remedy Scenario A seems appropriate to me in a vacuum, in Scenario B you're really just shielding your own ineptitude with the law. I view those things very differently and expect a lot of professionals do too.

Holy Mother of God. Montecore I think you may win the "liking to hear himself talk" award for 2011. Congrats. ILOVEPOKER929 will be by to handoff the trophy to you in a bit.

I cannot believe you've written like 50,000 words on the meaning of getting off to go vote. I randomly skimmed a few sentences from each post and they all said the exact same thing. I hope you don't think anyone other than rjoe is reading all that, and why he is I have no idea.

I was off work the past 3 days

Lemme guess, no show/no call and you get like 150% of your wages? Damn unions.

There's only so much I can say when people continually ask for clarification/act like they don't understand my point . . . Briefly making a point and having it be understood exactly as I intended it would be infinitely preferable, believe me.

Vacation that I have to use before the end of the year because it doesn't carry over

No staff union for me, management brah. Monday was a paid holiday though

People still get off for Columbus day? How many paid holidays do you get a year?

There's obviously no upper limit to how much you can say.

14 (sometimes more if they give us the full week of thanksgiving or the days from christmas eve through new years day)

Zing!

Nice, I am quite jealous. I only have 8 (and I think those 8 days are relatively standard across pharma). It always sucks after New Year's because I have 5 months until my next holiday lol.

MLK day is 3 weeks after new years

^ Lol you are a funny man sir.

That a British holiday or somthin'?

I don't get the joke.

So, I hate to break up this thread hijack to gloat, but I take it from the silence from the Republicans in this thread that they now consider their arguments utterly decimated?