I mean, if you agree with us that in person vote fraud is a vanishingly small problem, and you think that voter ID doesn't raise the barrier to vote, then you have to ask yourself why they are doing it.

Because we have an answer to that, and it's the same reason the "voter ID" laws inevitably are written along side reductions to the number of voting precincts in minority areas, reductions to the number of DMVs in minority areas, reductions to DMV hours in minority areas, reductions in early voting esp. on days that minorities like to use, and ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES TO ABSENTEE VOTING WHICH HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED AS THE #1 VECTOR FOR VOTE FRAUD.

Poll taxes were, like <$20 or something in today's dollars, and that was still more than enough to completely eliminate the electoral power of black people. It doesn't have to be a big barrier to completely change an election.

Transparent BS.

First, you say that Democrats don't really want more people to participate. Then you say that yes, you, Inso, don't really want more people to participate. Do you have any idea how transparent your racism is?

Fascist Republicans that hate democracy continue to attack the right to vote:


https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/880596194061430784

Doesn't seem like you're broadening your brainstorming horizons. There are several issues with the process of voting. Who gets to vote, what do they need to do to vote, and the veracity of a vote cast. There are probably others but that's just me thinking off the top of my head. Automatic registration is simply a tool to reduce the obstacles a person faces when it comes to what do they have to do to vote. For instance, currently you have to register to vote independently of various contacts you may have with government services that could be used to register a person. The goal is to reduce those hurdles and streamline the process. Those solutions can range from things that aren't too difficult to integrate with the current system even if they're not ideal, voter registration at the DMV, voter registration when graduating high school, etc and other programs, more pie in the sky like building a national voter ID database, with free IDs or be given out instead of using 50 state registries,etc.

Let me guess: Inso self-identifies as a "libertarian," doesn't he.

i can't even is this even real

Let me make a wild-ass prediction that insoo didn't get around to addressing this one.

.

Oh, lol, I didn't even read this. OK, never mind, it's not even worth wasting time discussing voting practices with someone who openly advocates voter suppression.

I guess this is the best thread for these questions. I'm curious what people here think... Let's assume Trump and the GOP are successful in voter suppression to some degree. What happens if?

1. The Democrat beats Trump in 2020 in the popular vote 70M-63M, 53-47%, but Trump wins the electoral college by holding very slim margins in a few states again. There are widespread reports of people being unable to vote due to not being on the rolls or not having ID, or whatever.

2. Opinion polls hold Trump's approval rating between 25 and 35%, polls before the election show Trump down by a sizable margin, but Trump wins comfortably in both the popular vote and electoral college. Voter totals are down in several states, while there are lots of reports of people being shocked at being turned away when they weren't on voter rolls.

Is there outrage? Unrest? Protest? Riots? Legal challenges? Civil war? Or do people just shrug and go back to work on Wednesday?

People go back to work.

nothing happens because there's nothing in our electoral system to provide any relief from such cheating

why do you think republicans keep doing it?

The ACLU loses a lawsuit and a couple magazines write think pieces. In scenario 2, the think pieces are all about how actually black people are mostly okay with Trump, as evidenced by the group's lower turnout.

The path to permanent control of the federal government is wide open for the GOP

Kris K Kobach was just on NPR lying his ass off about the voter fraud commission. His logic was that state's should provide any information the federal govt wants without question, because if they don't then clearly they have something to hide.

This of course means that if I asked Kris to hand over his wallet so I can check if he's doing anything illegal, he would instantly do it without question, right? Otherwise, what is he hiding?!

I think Democrats need to push for Automatic Voter Registration. At the state level, at the local level, at the federal level.

Kobach said he couldn't comply with is own request (he's Kansas sec of state). lol

Mississippi told him to go jump in the gulf of mexico.

Literally, they actually put that in the letter, lmao. A few R's still have some sense at least.

Trump administration: New Texas voter ID law fixes discrimination
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/07...iscrimination/
http://electionlawblog.org/wp-conten...j-remedies.pdf
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05...rhaul-changes/
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/10...i-need-voting/
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections...eclaration.pdf

While everyone is preoccupied with Kobach, nobody is talking about the other part of that tweet. The DOJ sent out a letter the same day

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000009

So they'll make all the minorities sign those affidavits swearing a "reasonable impediment," then probably prosecute a bunch of them for perjury... Even if they can't get the charges to stick, they can put the fear of God into any minority that dares to sign an affidavit to vote in Texas... might even manage to deport a few family members in the process.

Yes it's the same model as Jim Crow really. Make it as expensive and difficult to register as possible (more ID requirements, proof of citizenship, etc.), make it harder to vote, voting becomes more of a privileged thing, political representation reflects the will of the white people and the will of the owning class more and more.

I've made this point in a few threads when this issue has come up, and maybe in here before, but at this point it is crystal clear that the Democrats are getting their asses kicked on the current battle lines on Voter ID/Voter Suppression.

Right now the GOP is arguing that we need Voter ID to make it harder to fraudulently vote. The Democrats are (correctly) arguing that it is a solution without a problem, and it's got horrible side effects of restricting poor people's right to vote - and disproportionately impacting minorities. Obviously this is the whole point for the GOP. So, if the GOP gains ground they get to disenfranchise people who likely vote Democrat, and possibly become a permanently dominant party despite holding a minority of the eligible voting population. If the Democrats gain ground they get to... keep things as they are.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE PERPETUALLY BEING FREEROLLED ON THIS ISSUE.

Being freerolled is bad enough, but being freerolled where the outcome if your opponent wins is absolutely catastrophic is horrible.

Democrats absolutely MUST shift the battle lines here to include automatic voter registration at the age of 18, online registration, vote by mail, securing our technological election infrastructure, etc. This gives them a possible win on the issue, and if both sides get what they publicly "want," (the GOP pretends to want voter ID but really they want to disenfranchise folks), the Democrats actually win... Which puts the GOP in a tough spot in terms of messaging and PR. The Democrats can offer to vote yes on any voter ID bill that includes the aforementioned things, and the GOP has to then admit that they're opposed to more people voting. That's a tough sell.

The fact that the Democrats keep arguing this without shifting the battle lines is just complete ineptitude IMO. Are there any strategic thinkers at the DNC, or in the Democratic caucus???

It's an easy sell. Their base supports the voter suppression.

There is no battle lines to shift. Republicans want to disenfranchise people and are completely upfront about that.

I'm aware of what they want, I disagree about how up front they are... but neither is the point. The point is that Democrats are fighting that but not trying to gain anything. The current battle lines leave the Democrats defending the status quo but not pushing for improvements.